Conscious Coupling & The Art of Vulnerability with Realtionship Coach Melanie Carolyn

What happens when we stop performing in relationships and start showing up fully—MES, magic, and all? In this episode of Inside OUT, Jojo is joined by relationship coach, energy healer, life coach Melanie Carolyn for a raw, soul-stirring conversation about the real work of conscious coupling.

Together, they unpack:

• The difference between emotional chemistry and true compatibility
• Why vulnerability is the gateway to deep connection
• The patterns that sabotage love—and how to break them
• How to stop outsourcing your worth in dating and relationships
• What it means to build a relationship from alignment, not anxiety

If you've ever found yourself stuck in surface-level love, craving something more meaningful, or navigating the fine line between intuition and fear—this one’s for you.

🎧 Plus, don’t miss Melanie’s insights from her own healing journey and her powerful podcast Moms Unboxed.

Follow Melanie on Instagram: @iammelaniecarolyn

Listen to Moms Unboxed: Available on all platforms 

Live Meditations:  Mom's Unboxed Facebook Group

Let’s get MESy, get honest, and go Inside OUT.

Join the MESy Mailing List

Thank you for listening! Don't forget to follow along on social media @_insideout.podcast, rate and review. And Join the MESy Mailing List for exclusive content, insights on what is coming up and more!

Transcript

Jojo (00:06.99)
Welcome the Inside Out Podcast. I'm your host Jojo and this is where we will navigate the mess together. That is mental, emotional and spiritual. Let's get messy.

Jojo (00:26.393)
Hi everyone, welcome back to Inside Out. Thank you guys for being so patient with our little spring break moment that we had. And I'm so excited to get back into it you guys. And this week we're gonna dive into the world of vulnerability and conscious coupling with Melanie Caroline, who is a relationship coach, a life coach. She has an amazing podcast called Moms Unboxed.

And she's just a master at helping people break free from cycles that keep them stuck. And I want you guys to think of her as your go-to guide for building real intentional and authentic connections. So we are going to navigate the complexities of vulnerability and really understand today what it means to show up in relationships. So we are covering it all and let's get into it. So without further ado, Melanie, welcome to Inside Out.

Thank you. It's a pleasure to be here. Well, I'm really excited to talk to you today because straight off the bat when we met, we were just nonstop going deep into relationships and how we show up in relationships and how we want to be in relationship and just basically like what that's like when you have someone opposing you and

I remember specifically we were talking for like three and a half hours. I was just thinking the entire time, like this is an episode. So let's get messy. Let's get into it. You're a relationship coach, a life coach. You do a lot of spiritual work, energy work, Reiki, so many things that just blend into such a beautiful human that you are. So again, thank you for joining me and

Yeah, let's, let's dive in. Yeah, I'm very excited. And I do love when we met because like, I don't do surface level conversation. I just don't. I go deep. go all in. I'm a projector in human design. So obviously I'm seeing people. I'm seeing their soul. I'm the same way though. I, I don't do the surface. I like to, if I connect with someone, it's like, I don't want to talk about the weather. I don't care what you do for work. Like

Jojo (02:46.851)
Who are you? What is your soul? What makes you tick? How do you feel? What is your deepest desire? How do you show up in the world? Are you happy? That is my main thing. I mean, so many people just aren't aligned with how they feel on the inside and how they show up in life. And that really translates, especially in romantic relationships, when people are inauthentic or...

not true to themselves or self-sabotage, betray, they don't follow their intuition. There's so many avenues people just...

lose themselves down. What is a recurring issue when people are probably navigating getting into a relationship or commitment or coupling, conscious coupling? Like, is there like a disconnect that you see? Yes. And I think you hit the nail on the head there Jojo, because oftentimes at the beginning of a relationship, we are allowing

parts of ourselves to be seen, but not our entire selves. And so we're gonna lead with the things that are great about us, right? We're gonna lead with, you know, I show up and make the commitment, I'll call you when I say I'll call you, I'm gonna care for you. And then when we start deepening into the relationship, we see that maybe there's some red flags, right? Where they might...

not keep their commitments. They might be a liar. They might not clean up well after themselves. They might have these things that we don't necessarily enjoy, but we don't see those things at the start of a relationship. And so one of the problems that I see during those relationships is that we're leading with our emotions, right? We meet someone, we enjoy them, we have fun with them.

Jojo (04:48.794)
We're having a good time. We're making out, we're doing all the things, but we're not having those deep, intimate conversations. So I see a lot of people making big decisions based around emotion alone. And then, let's say two people move in together, they've already made that huge decision based on the emotional feelings, but then we're not thinking about how things are going intuitively.

And are we in alignment? Are our values the same? Are we going to parent the same if you're trying to join a family? Are our morals the same? Are we going to meet each other on a spiritual level? These are conversations that are not had before we make big life-changing decisions. And even just in that, like even just getting into a relationship, that is a life-changing decision and people don't...

have those conversations. You're so, right. I've never had that conversation going into a relationship being like super intentional. Like, what do you expect in a relationship? How do you show up? What are your like non-negotiables? How do you view what a partnership is? And I think those are such valid questions. Cause I had this conversation, on a previous episode where it's merging two companies. And he made the example that you're not going to merge

and McDonald's and it's like, yeah, like, but people don't think about that when it comes to merging two people's worlds and what that mutual world will look like. People just want to jump into either one of those respective worlds and not build out their own. And for me, I'm a very emotional person and sometimes logic goes out the window and

There, there has to be a logical side of this and you're so, wow. Yeah. I didn't even think about that. Like, yes, you think about that, but like, you don't actually do it in the moment. No, I didn't. When I entered my first marriage, I was very lonely, came from a very traumatic household. I had a two year old son and this was the first person that

Jojo (07:12.6)
really cared for me. I felt safe with this person. I enjoyed this person. We had a good time together. And it was like three, four months in, I just moved into his place. We didn't have these conversations. I was in a place of flight or fight. I was in survival mode. And it's when we're in survival mode that we don't really think about these things, especially for

young moms or moms who are just really needing a place to rest their head, a safe and secure place. And so those kinds of questions and conversations are oftentimes not had because they're coming from a place of survival. And I realized later on that there was so many red flags in this relationship, even before the marriage happened.

he was lying, the power was getting shut off, the water was getting shut off. There was money just disappearing. And I was like, what is happening? I don't understand what's going on. But I felt already so deep into the relationship. I had already moved myself and my young son in. And so it was too late to like, in my mind, it was too late to pull out of that relationship. And so we see a lot of women getting into these toxic relationships.

because we feel like it's too late to pull out. We're already stuck. We're already, you know, chained to this person or this circumstance. And that's why for me, I advocate for women to really understand what it is they want, what are their needs and desires, and are they in a place where they can feel liberated, feel free, and prosper in the relationship. And that's why I say have these conversations.

at the very beginning.

Jojo (09:37.22)
This is my heart, these are my desires, these are my fears, these are my choices, this is what I want, this is what I don't want. And for someone to be on the receiving end of that or just being open to having that conversation, like I'm sorry, but I don't know any of my friends who have had this conversation. And maybe I'm just not privy to it because that's a private thing that's happened, but there's not really like...

This is going to sound so unsexy, but there's not like the negotiation that happens. There's two people merging their lives. There has to be a conversation. It can't just be like, and bam, we're together because we have a good chemistry going on. Like that's not enough. No, it's not enough. And I'll tell you two reasons why I feel these conversations aren't had. One, it takes a certain amount of vulnerability at the very beginning of getting to know someone.

And being vulnerable is a struggle for human beings. And it's opening up our heart. It's basically lying out on the counter saying, hey, here's my cards. And when we don't feel like the other person is going to be just as vulnerable, we hold back. We withdraw those conversations because it is very difficult. And number two,

Having those type of conversation means that there's an open door for a breakup. And people who are falling in love with each other, who really like each other, who are having a good time, there's this good chemistry happening, we don't want a breakup because breaking up leads to heartache, leads to sadness and grief. And those are emotions that a lot of people avoid. So it's easier to not have the conversations

and just dive deep into the relationship, see how it goes, and then kind of deal with the mess later instead of at the very beginning. You have to remember too, it takes a certain amount of emotional intelligence and maturity to have these type of conversations at the beginning of a relationship. We find that when we've already moved in, we've already made a commitment, when we're already married, all these red flags start arising.

Jojo (11:56.43)
And you start to notice, wait, our values aren't aligning. The way we parent isn't the same. Our morals, the way we spiritually connect isn't aligning. And that was the case in my marriage. We were together, we were married for, I mean, technically, legally, we're still married, but we separated two years ago and we were together for 11 years, married for nine. And I realized that we were not emotionally or spiritually connecting.

And these deep, vulnerable connections aren't had until we can trust someone, until we can truly get to know them. And unfortunately, that is later on in the relationship. For some, for some, I will say my current partnership, the exact opposite. We spiritually and emotionally connected very early on, which is why I knew, along with great communication, which is why I knew this partnership would be

is going to be long lasting. And I will say that because not only does it take a certain amount of vulnerability and communication and understanding, you have to understand yourself. You have to know your own intuition. You have to realize what you want, what you need, what your desires are for your life, for your children, if you have children. And what is

okay and what's not okay in a relationship and continuing to hold those boundaries and saying, know what, if these things don't align that are very valuable to me, then the relationship's not gonna work. Too many times people stay in relationships in hopes that it will work and that's when more damage is done. That's why you see a lot of relationships, a lot of couples that break up.

They can't be friends afterwards because they've done so much damage in the relationship trying to force it to work that they don't end peacefully. don't want to rock the boat. Rocking the boat can just be like having that conversation because if you have that conversation, you pull things apart and you really see like, this doesn't work. This works. Then you have to change things and people don't want to do that. They think they meet a partner.

Jojo (14:12.654)
and then they just, they're together. And that's kind of just like the trajectory that it goes and you don't want to fight so you don't bring certain things up and you don't want to make any like waves, but you have to, if you're looking to have deep, meaningful relationships in your life and be fulfilled yourself, and like you have to know yourself, you have to know your partner, you have to know their boundaries, their weak point, you got to know everything about them. And this is...

what's so crazy to me about the dating world that is this generation or just today, I should say. People meet and then they're like jumping into bed together, playing house immediately. And there's not these like real conversations and someone's buying someone flowers immediately. It's like, wait a second. What? Who are you again? Like we just skipped that. And then they wonder, and then they get into the relationship two years in, wonder why.

Why don't you buy me flowers still? because that wasn't really who they were. They were just putting on a front. And that's what people do when they get in a relationship is they're showing their best self like, ooh, I'm going to get you the flowers. I'm going to be there when you need me. you're on your period. Let me get your ice cream. Let me get all the things that you love.

The relationship goes, you know, two, three years in, it's like, all that shit stops. Well, why did it stop? Because that wasn't really me in the first place. I wish I would have known this shit before we got, you know, so deep in. And to go back to the point of, you know, trying to make a relationship last or not and talking about those conversations is I want to say for couples, it's easier to burn the bridge than it is to bridge the gap.

It takes work to work on problems and issues in a relationship that arises. And a lot of people just want to burn it down. That's why you see all these relationships that literally turn into anger and frustration and like literally hating each other, because it's easier to show those emotions than it is to be vulnerable and say, Hey, let's sit down. Let's talk about these things. Where can we bridge the gap for our relationship to either end peacefully or to continue on working

Jojo (16:29.506)
with each other.

I want go back to the vulnerability aspect because showing someone that you're hurt, that's not an easy thing to show someone to open up and be like, that sucked. We want to blame, we want to point fingers and that's such an easy way to move to anger. And specifically for me in the past, like this is years ago at this point, but I would jump immediately to anger and I wouldn't be

vulnerable and like step back and be open. I'd be like, nope, it's fine. Whatever. And like, like you said, burn it down because that was an easier way. And also I think deep down in those relationships, like I knew that they weren't the right situation for me. So it was kind of like also lying to myself, but my intuition was like, it's not right anyway. So like it's going to end anyway. So you can burn it down however you want to type deal.

And my body would literally like react to these people. Like I wouldn't be able to sleep well next to them or I would just like have very visceral reactions around them. I remember this is funny, but I had a boyfriend that I would get like a skin rash around my mouth when I would kiss him. My body was literally like, you are not meant to be with this person. Like your body does not like him. And it would just be like his beard irritating me. And now I've had boyfriends with beards since then, but that would never happen.

Other things would happen. Like my body would tell me like, Hey, you're not in the right situation. And then something would manifest in the relationship that would inevitably push this person out of my life because the vulnerability aspect and like the real side of me, I truly to this day, don't think anyone's truly seen like me, which is kind of scary because yeah, showing that to someone and having them be like,

Jojo (18:30.477)
Not in control of my heart, but having my heart, that just sounds very, very, very scary. There's a lot of fear that comes up with that. Yes, there is a lot of fear and a lot of vulnerability. But people, how do you bridge that gap? How do you bridge the gap from like having your walls be so high to then just being like, hey, this is me.

Cause also on the flip side of that, I don't think I've truly seen that from a partner standpoint. Well, my, my first response is, is loving yourself, loving yourself, regardless of what someone else is doing, regardless of someone else's vulnerability, regardless of what they think about you. And it takes a certain amount of strength and bravery in order for someone, for you to let someone see who you truly are.

And if you are holding up walls, you're protecting your heart, you're stonewalling in a relationship, it's not going to be as successful as you would like because you internally have your own limiting beliefs and stories about yourself or your upbringing or perhaps a past relationship that you are holding those things so tightly and carrying them forward into current relationships.

And it is until you can deal with your internal self and heal those aspects where you can truly allow yourself to feel like you can trust and you can be vulnerable and you can show your heart and who you truly are. And knowing that even if the relationship goes poorly, you're going to be okay regardless because you love yourself endlessly. You trust yourself. You've built a relationship with yourself and it doesn't matter.

who you end up with or who you lose because you've got you endlessly. Very well said. And that brought up so many thoughts. I tend to do that. Always sparking so many thoughts in my head. I think that's another thing too, carrying the narrative of your past relationships and how people have treated you.

Jojo (20:51.445)
into a current situation for me has been a huge form of self-sabotage because instead of stepping back and realizing new person, new scenario, new this, new that, it's the same feeling that's triggered. It's the same way that I feel and ergo my belief that it will be the same pattern. And I'm sure that's not something I'm alone in, but.

that's definitely a lot to sit with and process. Because of course you don't want to go through what you went through before and someone might do something that's going to elicit that exact same response. So how would you like suggest people who are looking to deepen relationships, start relationships, anything to do even with their self, what would be techniques and ways that you would say like,

to kind of move away from projection. Well, first I would have to encourage everyone to look inwards, understanding what are the narratives that you are holding onto? What are the limiting beliefs? What are your struggles? Is it codependency? Is it fear of abandonment? Is it distrust? Like what is it you are experiencing internally?

that is projecting out onto your relationships. And when you can discover those things, identify it, then that's when the real healing can begin. Because what you don't want to have happen is that you get into this relationship with this wonderful person and they're doing something that occurred in a previous relationship and you suddenly are reacting like as if you were in that.

previous partnership. And they have no idea that that's even a story in your head. No idea. All you're doing is reacting. Your ego mind is telling you that, they're cheating on you. you can't trust them. they're lying to you. they're trying to hurt you. So then you get defensive. You start believing these intrusive thoughts because I hate to say it, that's what you're comfortable in.

Jojo (23:10.133)
you are comfortable in that chaos. We live in the energy that we know. So if you had an upbringing where it was very chaotic, a lot of yelling, you were not meant to feel safe to show emotions or express emotions, you were repressed, you are going to carry those things with you in your current relationships. And I remember in the

partnership that I'm in right now, at the beginning, I felt very repressed. Not because he was making me feel repressed, because I didn't feel safe to express my emotions. I didn't know how to communicate that was healthy. And so I've learned so much over the last few years about what it means to actually feel safe, what it means to really trust someone without carrying those narratives, stories, and limiting beliefs.

that I grew up with. And so you have to really identify and become aware of those things so that you can have a healthy relationship. And you need to communicate these things and express these things to your partnership. Because I tell you, if you don't, you're going to cause more damage in your relationship than it would just to be vulnerable and share what you're experiencing, what it is you're going through. And if you have a great partner, they're going to help you.

move through those things and heal and create new belief patterns and new ways of trust. because if you distrust or you have shitty communication or you think they're lying, your brain is going to look for evidence to back up those beliefs. So if you have a partnership where you can be authentic and say, hey, this is what I'm experiencing, I feel like you're lying to me because you came home late one day.

And I know that's not the case, but that's what happened in my previous partnership. They're going to be able to say, hey, let me do what I can to reassure you. Let me check in more often if that's what you need. You know, they're going to join with you in healing those things if you've already gotten into a relationship with these things, which most of us do. We're not perfect. We tend to carry our baggage, right? A lot of us are in the subconscious with it. They don't understand like why they're so reactive or why they don't trust.

Jojo (25:37.357)
But if you have that great partnership, they're going to help you through it and you can help each other. If you're not in a partnership, then look at these things on your own so that you are ready for partnership. But to challenge that, like you can't really know how you're going to respond to something unless you're met with that opposition. For instance, in previous partnerships that I've had, there's been a lot of space, a lot of distance. And I don't mean like physical distance. mean, I mean that too, but in the sense of like,

just absence as in no communication, stonewalling or disappearing or something would come up and it would just affect me. And then I would be left kind of by the wayside being like, how do I be a supportive partner? But also what the heck is going on? And I can say in these past relationships, like it didn't actually have to do with me, it had to do with like their external

lives and what they were dealing with and their stresses and their pressures. But that brought up a ton of abandonment and a lot of fear and a lot of the narrative of I'm not enough, which are all my limiting beliefs and things that I've been looking at. But that's so easy to say coming from someone that's been single for over a year and just like not being met with that opposition. Because if and when I'm met with that opposition, it's like that's still going to come up, but then what?

Yeah, I agree that some of these triggers are in our subconscious mind. And that's why I say the best relationship that you can develop is the one with yourself. Because if you start understanding yourself, discovering who you are, understanding your shadow parts, you're going to know that you have abandonment issues. You're going to know that you have difficulty trusting people.

Now it's for those folks who don't do that deep dive within themselves that something may arise and they're triggered. And they're like, shit, I didn't know this was a thing until it actually happens. Right. And then that's when you start addressing it. You you start meditating, you start doing somatic work, you start journaling, you start asking yourself, well, why is this here? Why is abandonment here?

Jojo (27:57.366)
Where does it stem from? And if it stems from childhood, from you being left or you have had family and friends pass away and you feel abandoned, right? There's numerous reasons why people feel abandonment. And you really go into yourself with self-compassion and holding this with tenderness, holding the trigger with tenderness that you really start to have

more self-love and understanding of how you can move through that. And it doesn't, it's not an overnight process. These things can take months, years to really understand and release because you're moving through it. But it's those people who are motivated to grow and evolve as a person where they're really going to deep dive into themselves because they want to be a better person. They don't want to hold on to these

narratives and stories and limiting beliefs. They want to improve as a person so that they can master their relationships, master the relationship with themselves, master the relationship with their partners and their children. But it takes work. It's not an overnight process. takes a lot of work with yourself and then even just telling your partner that that's a narrative in your head, that's a whole other hurdle. mean, vulnerability, it all comes back to that. It's all being

super transparent with, you know, the reflection in the mirror of like who you are and like really what your values are, but then also being able to like let someone else see that. And for me, that's very new territory and extremely scary. is scary because you are literally putting yourself out there. You're saying like, here, here's my narratives, here's my triggers, and you're approaching your partner with that.

And they have freedom to leave. They can say, I don't want to deal with this. you know, and that's the fear there is something's going to change in your relationship or your partner is going to leave you or your partner is going to respond poorly. And I will tell you all out there, if you have the intention to grow and evolve as a person,

Jojo (30:14.388)
and you are inviting your partner into those deeper parts of yourself and they respond poorly, they gaslight you, they blame you, they manipulate you, you're with the wrong fucking person. Yeah, at end of the day, you need to be with the people and around the people that are going to support you, support your emotions that you can be a support to as well and that it's not this like trying to fit a square

peg in a round hole. Start picking people that you feel safe with, but also build foundations and learn who these people are before you start making all these assessments. And I think there's so many different directions that we've gone in, but it all comes down to who you are, what you're looking for, and how that other person can reflect that back to you. I think we're so quick to jump into relationships and

like throw all these things out the window and then we're like, why does the same thing keep happening instead of getting real, getting raw with again, ourselves, our partner and pulling things apart and not having that fear of they could leave because yeah, anyone can leave at any point just because your inner relationship is not a guarantee of anything. They could leave, but also what if they stay? What if that's the person that you can

keep doing this with for the rest of both of your lives. Because that's also a narrative. And I think people are so quick to jump to, I know I am so quick to jump to the negative side of it and be like, my God, what if they leave? And then it's like, yeah, but what if they stay? And I think dropping into that aspect and knowing at any point anything can happen and being okay with the unknown.

Cause everything's going to be unknown. Getting into a relationship, more question marks. Breaking up, more question marks. It's just a, it's a fork in the road. It's a different way that it can go, but either way you're not going to know. So let go, let go. would feel like drop in and get real. Yes, get very honest. And that's why it's so important to have these conversations at the beginning of a relationship.

Jojo (32:40.854)
Because yes, we're being more vulnerable, but it actually deepens the partnership. It creates more connection when we can just be raw and vulnerable and honest and be true to who we are and hope that that person is on board. And if they're not, you're either the one or the one that got away in either way. You're the one. The one is you, you are the one period. And I love that that has just been a constant theme throughout because

We're always looking for the one and we just forget that the one's right here. Yeah. My mentor actually said that and it resonated with me so much because yes, the one relationship that you should be developing the most is the one with yourself. And like I said, either way, you got you. I love it. So let's wrap this up. Let's get messy.

mentally, emotionally, and spiritually. What would you say you would mentally need to do to wrap your head around vulnerability? Trusting myself. That's a good one. Trusting yourself. I can relate. Okay, double click on that. How would you emotionally prepare yourself for vulnerability?

in my body, it's really, you know, dropping from the mind and into the body. And I don't, I think it's again, trusting myself, trusting that I am choosing what is right for me and what feels good in my body is it's key to it is it's key to a

healthy relationship with yourself, with your children and your partner. I definitely agree with what you say. And I think for me, emotionally to deal with vulnerability or to tackle vulnerability, think addressing the limiting beliefs in myself and really understanding like where those come from, because then I can be more objective. I know that sounds like the mental side of it, but being more objective with like what these reactions are rather than

Jojo (35:04.93)
projecting and blaming. But yeah, getting clear on what those emotions are that come up so that I don't react on the shadow side of it and I act on the reality of it. And then the last part of the mess is spiritual. So how would you address vulnerability spiritually? Trusting my intuition and understanding

You know, when the intuition speaks, are you actually listening? Not only are you listening, but are you taking action that is in alignment with what you truly want and desire and what you know is right for you? And those, all that mental, body, spirituality, it all ties in together because like you mentioned, when you were in a relationship, you'd get a rash on your lip. And when I was in a shitty toxic relationship, I got

a body rash all over my body because I wasn't listening to my intuition and my body was responding to that disalignment, to what I know was not right for me. So if you're in a relationship and you intuitively know that this relationship is not in alignment with what you need and where you want to be in life, you need to listen.

Because when we stop listening to our intuition and we are not in alignment, your body is going to respond. Our body is one of the greatest messengers to understanding if you are in alignment. We always know. We always know we just don't listen. Well, thank you so much for going inside out with me today and getting messy. Where can people find you?

I have a podcast called Moms Unboxed. You can find me on any major platform. You can also find me on Facebook at Melanie Caroline and on Instagram at I am Melanie Caroline, Caroline, C-A-R-O-L-Y-N for the last name because apparently there's a lot of Melanie Caroline's on Instagram. Thank you so much, JoJo. I appreciated being here and it's always a pleasure to talk to you.

Jojo (37:24.4)
thank you so much for joining me. Seriously, this was so great. And I will tag all of this in the show notes. Make sure you go check out mom's unboxed. Find I want to say her Facebook group has live meditations in it. So go do that because we all could use a little more Zen in our life. And I mean, listen to her voice. She's incredible. And you guys know where to find me at underscore inside out podcast. Make sure you share this episode with a friend, like, subscribe, comment.

Do all the things and I will see you guys next week. Alright guys, bye.