The Process IS the Purpose: A Spiritual Approach to Love, Life & Letting Go with Dr. Victoria Grinman

This episode has been sitting with me since March — literally. I recorded this conversation with Dr. Victoria Grinman months ago, and for a lot of reasons (life, timing, alignment), it just didn’t feel ready to release… until now.

Victoria is a psychotherapist, a mentor to other healers, and someone who brings a deeply spiritual lens to everything she does. 

This conversation explores the dance between control and surrender, why trusting the process is so much harder when it comes to relationships, and how to navigate rejection in a way that actually brings you closer to yourself. Dr. V also shares how she blends spirituality into her business, and why building anything meaningful starts with expanding the vessel — not forcing the outcome.

This episode is a reminder that just because you’re not where you thought you’d be doesn’t mean you’re off track. Sometimes the waiting is the work.

Let it land. And let it be enough, right now.

As promised the books we brought up in the episode: 

The Power of Kabbalah by Yehuda Berg

God Wears Lipstick by Karen Berg

Connect with Dr. V on instagram @drvictoriagrinman and learn more about her HERE 

Thank you for listening! Don't forget to follow along on social media @_insideout.podcast, rate and review. And Join the MESy Mailing List for exclusive content, insights on what is coming up and more!

Transcript

Welcome to the Inside Out Podcast. I'm your host JoJo and this is where we will navigate the mess together. That is mental, emotional and spiritual. Let's get into it.
So before we get into today's conversation, I just wanted to give you some context because this was recorded with Dr. Victoria Grinman actually back in March. And I've been holding onto it partly because, well, life has been lifing and a lot has been shifting and changing over the past few months, both personally and professionally for both of us. well, that being said, these themes we talk about in this episode are everything from relationships to purpose.

to career, to letting go and really trusting the process. And they're still so relevant. In fact, I feel like revisiting this episode has kind of reminded me of how these lessons are things that we're just figuring out day by day and integrating over time. And it's very interesting because these are cycles that we go through and they come back around and there's just a new awareness each time. So yes, this was recorded five months ago.

but it still holds so much weight and hopefully it lands exactly where you are today. So let's get into it. Dr. Victoria Grinman, welcome to Inside Out. Thank you so much. I'm so happy to be here, Jojo. I'm so excited. I'm so glad we had that opportunity to meet so kismetly. well, let's just get right into it. So you're a psychotherapist and you...

mentor other therapists, which is so interesting. And you have such a spiritual base to you. And actually that's how we met. We met at the Kabbalah Center. So let's blend all of those parts of you together and let everyone know kind of what your background is. Yeah. It was very nice to meet you. It's funny how those conversations have... I think I was going to walk away and I'm like, wait, what do you do? And then we just had that conversation. It really can happen in just a second, right? Where you...

meet someone and it just aligns. I'm a psychotherapist. have a private practice and I'm also a mentor to therapists and coaches. And I also work with people who help other people for a living, but in different spaces. I do utilize a lot of energetics and spirituality in my work to help me guide and others on their own journey to having

Jojo (02:43.109)
businesses and private practices and lives that are actually sustainable and value driven. And it's really exciting to do that every day. That's beautiful. I don't think I come across many people who blend in the spirituality side to the business side of it. Can you talk a little bit more about what you mean by that? Sure. I think that one of the main questions that I got when I first started off, I was traveling.

for this large organization as a contracted speaker. And I would meet hundreds of people on each travel. So when I first started, this was about 15 years ago, I would go to city to city to city in one state, and I would get to meet lots of folks who would ask me questions about how I built my private practice in such a creative, integrated way. And I didn't really understand what they meant because for me, this was the only way I didn't really have a coach, didn't have a mentor. But what I got was that

people saw what I was doing and saw something very different. And one of the things that I did that I think was very unique was really utilizing myself and my belief in myself and my faith and having that inner certainty that at the time I didn't think was such a spiritual thing. It was just something that was so inherent, almost like a second or third nature to who I was being in regards to building my practice around my purpose in life.

And then as I, you know, and I've always been a very spiritual, very deep, you know, person, it's very hard to have a conversation with me and stay light. I get in there and I'm very, very deep. I found that it actually is a very spiritual way of building, curating, and then sustaining a business that is built on what my purpose is in this world, what I believe that it is.

And then, you know, as I grew as a person and I continue to delve into self-development and professional development and not afraid to be in different circles and speaking to different people and learning like a student from so many and also teaching and then the intersection of all of that. Spirituality has always been a part of the conversation. And then with Kabbalah, the beautiful thing about it is that it's not something new to me, but it's new in the way that I've approached it recently, which is...

Jojo (05:00.529)
it's become such a beautiful integrative force for how I do what I do in my own practice and also helping people with their own. So when did you first discover Kabbalah, if it's not new to you? So many years ago, I think we talked and we giggled about this. I got a book. I think it's, still have it. It's The Power of Kabbalah. And yeah, it's on my shelf too. And funny enough,

It's one of two books because they think there's another one meant just for women. It's like it has lipstick on it just for women, right? God wears lipstick. God wears lipstick. There you go. I'll link both of these books in the show notes just if anyone's interested, by the way. They're so good. They're just so... And at the time, I was maybe in my early, very early 20s, maybe, when I got my hands on these books. But I would flip through them and it was almost like...

looking at something, not really knowing or really understanding it, but knowing that there's something in this, there's something. But you know, when we say that our vessel is just not ready or it's not prepared for what you're actually being given or what you're standing in front of. So, but out of all of the books, those two have just remained in my library. So I started to read more and I started to sort of

pick at different things and realizing that it's this aspect of Kabbalah and this aspect and this aspect, never really learning how to integrate it all. The Kabbalah center was on my mind, but I think it was during the time when Madonna made it really, really popular and it was like very kitschy and some people it attracted and other people it, you know, kind of pushed away a little bit. And I thought, oh, you know, I'm not sure. But I think

Most recently, I was studying pranic energy healing. And it's something that I integrated into my practice as a therapist. And it's really the use of prana energy to help cleanse and heal both physically and emotionally yourself, others. And I learned the deeper I went that so much of the basis of it is also grounded in Kabbalah.

Jojo (07:22.578)
And I was stunned because this to me felt like such a different discipline yet learning that, you know, master Toa Kokusui who, um, you know, is someone I, you know, like learn from, he's no longer with us physically, but he studied Kabbalah. And so when I learned this, said, okay. So I picked those books back up from my shelf and all of a sudden those words that meant nothing like years ago or very quickly.

all of a sudden started to make sense. was such a beautiful thing. And, you know, just being around the center, being in the center, going to different events, being drawn into the teachings and the people, it was just perfect and divine timing. Wow. I love that. Thank you for sharing that. Yeah. Kabbalah is one of those tools, I'll call it, even though, yes, it is spirituality and a wisdom that you can get very, very deep with, but it's a tool to sort of understand the blueprint of your life.

the blueprint of your soul, the blueprint of like why you're here and why you're on your purpose. And I love how you said you blend the spiritual aspects with your business side of it. Cause it's like, really, why am I here? And what is my purpose in this life? And I mean, there's so many avenues of that. It's like our soul's purpose, whether that's what we contribute to the world, how we show up in our relationships or just how we deepen that personal connection within ourselves. you, well, I haven't actually,

senior on the Kabbalah Center much at all, which is so, so nice that we finally crossed paths. What would you say was like the turning point for you actually coming to the center instead of just like reading it from the book? I wanted to be around it, you know, from my years of experience and business and professional development, when you are immersing yourself and you're in proximity to other people who are delving deeper than you.

are people that you can actually learn from. You know, I learned how to follow my curiosity and I think immersion is exactly what we need in order to really almost like swim in it. I wanted to be around the energy more. I also found that, you know, in the work that I do, so many times people want outcome, outcome, outcome, outcome, outcome, but we don't actually slow it down to recognize that the joy and pleasure of the outcome is actually not the outcome.

Jojo (09:41.716)
the outcome will always be there, it'll come. I think about my personal life, I was once married, the outcome came, but the question is, who was I becoming on the journey to that? What did that experience teach me? So I think one thing that I'm learning a lot of is how to enjoy that process even more. To be very, very blind, we all die, right? Our physical bodies do leave this earth and...

we have such a limited time. It's as long as it is short, it's short, you know, as short as it is long. And the idea is how do I bring more light to my life, around me so that there could be even more light to touch even more people. And that's a very spiritual thing that I think only being part of this practice lends us. Not to say that the center is the only place to get that. And there's pros and cons to every institution you go to, you know,

people you like and don't like and you know, politics. So it's not to say that like there's only one place, but there's something very powerful when you have so many people that are aligned with, you know, bringing light into the world and growing from that. So I've been attracted to come back and come back. I what you're saying about the process. And the background on my phone is actually the process is the purpose. Yes.

I think we tend to forget about that on the way because we're so driven by results. We're such a data-based society and if I do this, then I get that. And I agree with you, it's not beneficial unless we slow down and we're actually in the process. And that instant gratification that people are seeking really does blow up business relationships.

And I mean, you mentioned that you were married before and you have a very successful business. Do you notice that there's like a disconnect maybe between like one avenue of your life and another? Like, is it maybe the business that thrives and like maybe relationships don't or maybe vice versa? Is there like one place where manifestation and that process is a little bit more blocked? For sure. I think that it's very human.

Jojo (11:51.996)
And it's one of the misnomers. Everyone, you know, people think that when you see a successful person on TV and business, that they must have their entire lives together. One of the benefits of being a therapist and helping people and seeing on the insides of their lives is I get to see, and it's a mirror because my life is the same, right? People who are very successful in one space have such a difficult time or it occurs as such a challenge for them to have.

a similar level of success maybe in their relationships or in love as they do in business or building community. And you look at it and you say, why? And I think the reason as I go through my own journey is recognizing and learning this through the teachings as well, which is we don't manifest anything. We are here to allow things to come into our lives and allow for things to

happen and allow for, you know, the blessings to come in, but the manifestation is something that's not really up to us. Like it's not our job to make things work. And I think for some of us, like for me in my work realm, I feel very blessed. I have such a framework of abundance when it comes to.

everything from creativity to opportunity to connection. If there's a rejection, it fuels me, not from a place of, I'm gonna show them. It's more like, okay, wow, my desire, my will is greater. Okay, right, like the rejection or the no is just like a redirection and it feels so fulfilling and exciting and it almost doesn't run out. It's like this waterfall of just.

Constant energy now do I get tired? Of course I'm human but in regards to the abundance in that realm It just feels so easy to allow things to happen regardless of what Block might be there in other areas of my life particularly for example the area of finding that partnership in love which is so important for me because I want so much to build with someone and I want so much to

Jojo (14:12.504)
give in that area of my life. But I find that it's harder to allow for things to flow that when there is a rejection or there is a block, it takes me a little bit longer to, you know, like my teacher today said, all right, like if you fall spiritually, you get up. he, and he's like, next, next. For me, the next is more like,

I got to sit on the ground and inspect my knee when I fall spiritually in that area of my life and then be like, why did this happen? Right? Like the next feels a little bit harder to move from, right? And it's, it's work. It's spiritual work to get up and not feel what we say jaded or not feel like when's the next fall going to happen. Right. And it's interesting in my business realm, that's not

it at all. Remember, a rejection or a fall is just like, I'm so excited I'm skipping and I fell because I'm so excited because I'm going to reach where I'm going, not, my gosh, I'm falling and it's keeping me down. So I think it's a blessing to have something to work on. If everything was easy, I think life would just be so incredibly boring.

You know, I think these, it's hard to say also because on one hand, there's a part of me that, ugh, like why does it have to feel so hard? And on those harder days and the more aligned I become, the more grateful and like my relationship with that higher power, like for some people it's God, for some people it's, know, whatever it is that they feel. It just, gets, it becomes stronger because I've been asking for help more. Whereas before prayer felt.

so disconnected and with my learnings, I'm realizing that with the prayer, with the asking for help, with the saying, I really can't control anything right now. also the other thing I'll add Jojo is I don't ask for partner anymore. I ask for help being open today. I ask for help being better today.

Jojo (16:29.092)
for help staying positive today. Give me the signs I need or let me read something on my way on a bumper sticker that I need to see to help me with learning what a true yes in my body feels like. Give me an experience today please that will help me distinguish between like yes and no. You know, like I am praying for like my, I guess my vessel to expand rather than the outcome to come.

so that I can be prepared, you know, for when it does. There's so many amazing things that you just said from the rejection to even bridging that gap between where you get rejected in your business versus when you get rejected in your personal life or your romantic life to like letting go of that. And it's so funny because also today I had a conversation with my teacher where I was like,

I'm so good at being in flow when it comes to my career and just allowing things to kind of unfold and manifest. But I too have that control aspect of like, or I think I have control, which we don't have control as you already mentioned, over really like what comes to us. We have control over our effort and how we respond to that and react to it. But inevitably, at the end of the day, the creator or that greater force or the universe or however you want to see it,

is going to be the deciding factor of like what really does come to you. And you can go about it from a painful standpoint and force and, you know, muscle your way through it, or you can let go and have things evolve in a beautiful way. And the art of letting go or releasing that control is also very much, as I mentioned, something I struggle with, especially in the relationship world. Again, so good at it in...

everything else and I've kind of had to be just because my career is so in flux and up in the air and I freelance and I have my own stuff going on and there's all these things that I don't really have control of my schedule and I've been so okay with that and the art of unattaching and with the relationships it's like no like I have to figure this out and it takes so much longer and if someone says no it's like well what's wrong with me and like going into those narratives how would you say that you found I mean you did touch on this but even to go a little bit deeper

Jojo (18:40.302)
bridging that gap between really letting go and letting it flow when it comes to the relationship world? This is such a great question and I feel like as I'm answering it, I'm as much a student as you are in this space, right? So we're just, I love this conversation because this helps us in our own path. I think something that my teacher said to me today is actually really great to insert here. We were talking about

free will because I said, okay, so like if I am either too much or I'm not enough and my mind goes into all of these places, how do you know? And he said to me, it's really about building confidence in yourself. And I said, okay, but how do I know? Right, like when it comes to business, I don't ask these questions. I just do because it's so inspired. When it comes to

the relationship realm, I come with so many preconceived notions, so many experiences, so many, the desire, right? The detachment is there because I've gotten better at it, but the desire and will is still grounded in a little bit of obsession with time. Like when, when time, right? So what he said to me was, I'll tell you a secret. And now it's not so much a secret, but he's like, there's no, there's really no free will.

Right? And so like, and I said, what do you mean? And he said, I want you to think about it this way. The free will that you have Victoria is to decide in the present moment, what kind of seed you're going to plant. So he said, you could either plant a seed of light into a moment, or you can plant a seed of something else, doubt, negativity, scarcity, anxiety. And he said, in a present moment, that is what you have control over.

So to answer your question, I've been working a great deal and talking a lot about this, what I can and what I can't control for a long time because of just who I be in the world and how I've operated. I thought that I had more control over things than I do. And when it comes to relationships, just like in business, we only have control over what's over here with us.

Jojo (21:04.25)
So for example, when it comes to dating, maybe this is a little crazy, but I'll tell you what I do. Not only do I have, you know, my makeup and, you know, hair and like, what am I going to wear and all of that, and how long it's going to take me to get there if I'm not being picked up or whatever, but I meditate and I prepare my, my mind and my thoughts and my nervous system. And I've been journaling and really having that conversation with

the creator about what I am hoping, you know, I can come into this restaurant or the situation with. I forgive myself preemptively for any moments where I judge myself. And he talked to me a lot also about having mercy and not judging myself, which, you know, is difficult when you're a Virgo and a perfectionist and ambitious and a successful and all of that. But

The way that he described it to me was, and it's been beautiful for me, is thinking about the distinction between mercy and judgment of oneself, for example, of others is time. That with judgment, it collapses, like you judge something or yourself, there's no time to repair, there's nothing else you can do. But with mercy, you actually give yourself that expansion of.

you know what, I said this, I shouldn't have said it, or I did it this way, I shouldn't have done that, but you know what, like, tomorrow will be different, tomorrow's a new day. And so practicing mercy and grace with myself and knowing that things that are meant for me will not, like, you can't miss something that's meant for you, right? So having that faith. So as you can see, lots of, I'm like a baby trying to walk.

in this space, even though I've had so much experience helping other people, it's such a different animal when you're doing it with yourself and for yourself. I love that analogy, a baby. We're just, I always say that too. Like I'm just learning how to roll over at this point. I'm not even crawling right now. Like I'm literally figuring out like who I am and what that even looks like. Okay, let's dive into the relationship aspect of your life and what that's really looked like. And

Jojo (23:20.672)
you did say there was like, it's harder for you to manifest. And I love what you said also about like creating that space and that vessel. When we say vessel, we're talking about like your literal, your literal soul yourself to be receptive to whatever's coming to you, but also staying true to yourself. And all of that happens with knowing yourself. So what has your dating experience or your relationship experience been since it's been a little less of the flow that your career has been? It's a good question.

It's one of the hardest training grounds for what's to come, I think. You know, on one aspect that makes it difficult is just the social milieu, just like the, you know, of dating in this digital slash, you know, very saturated, you know, world. you a digital dater? I tap into digital dating. do. You never know where it will come from.

And sure, you know, I think that, some days I have to play a little game with myself to get on those and, know, and be consistent. And other days it's, it's exciting. It's like waking up and saying, you know, who am going to meet today? you know, who am going to swipe on or who, know, what's going to surprise me and, know, really being from that space rather than waiting to feel like I feel like it, if that makes sense. Yeah.

You know? And some days it's easier to be on an app than it is to go out. So, you know, yeah, I think it's a nice avenue, but it's also exciting. It's exciting to meet different kinds of people. And the more you work on yourself, it's interesting what happens. I was on a date recently and I was sitting across from this person. I was sharing this with them. It's so cool to see who you attracted in front of you.

And it's so cool to go home and just kind of audit it a little bit and say, wow, like I attracted that person into my life at this time. And what are they mirroring back to me about me? If I like it, cool. Like, yes. If I don't love it or something irks me or I'm annoyed, what does that mean? And what can I refine? So.

Jojo (25:42.304)
It's become less about getting someone to like me and more about recognizing how far I've come, what I like, what feels right. It's really all about us. Yeah. Class one, Kabbalah one. Why is this in my movie? Why is this in my life? This has nothing to do with blaming projections, their fault. It's it's no, no, no. What am I doing that's calling this in? Why is this a mirror to me? Why is that in front of my face? Exactly. Yeah. That's such a

Beautiful way to go about dating. I've never even thought of it that way but you think about that just or I go through life and I'm like why is this in my movie today? Okay. Yes. Yes. Yes, but I do it I audit from a very different standpoint, but I've never done it from a relationship standpoint So I'm gonna I'm gonna adopt that. Thank you for sharing that. That's really cool. Yeah. Yeah, you're welcome. It's fun It's it's really cool, you know, and then I

I also slow it down. try to apply the same principles that I do to my work where I slow roll it. say, okay, I don't want a fast like fire that burns out right away. That's not what I'm looking like. I know what that feels like. I know what it is to get that outcome and have the dress and have the ring and have the husband and have the house and have the you feel is really like, but you know, the message that I want to share with a lot of

people who have not had that in their life yet, that blessing yet, even though it didn't last, it was a blessing, is that when you get married, it's kind of like the experience when someone dies or when you have a big celebration. People are there, they come to the wedding, they dance with you, but once that's all over and the gifts are unpacked and everything is in its place and the money's deposited,

You are there with the person, the partner that you've chosen and life goes on and it's just you and them and you and you. you know, the outcome is not the thing. It's who again, you're becoming on the way to it. And if you only chase the outcome, you chase away all of the pleasure of the process.

Jojo (28:05.94)
And had I paid attention more to the process during that time and really trusted my body, the messages, my mind, my heart, I would have had a different experience. Thank goodness I had that experience. It was a blessing in my life. There were many good things about it too. And now dating today, it's so cool to recognize that part of me.

that still wants to sometimes get to that. Out. Rush, rush into it. Yeah. Totally. But know now how to hold my own hand and say, you know, slow roll it, like calm down, right? Like, let's look around, let's take a deep breath in, let's enjoy what's happening. Do you like this person? You know what I mean? Like, do you want to see them again? What is it about them that you enjoy?

How does this person deal with not being able to park the car when they've picked you up? Are they frustrated that they're in traffic? And not having assumptions. Sometimes being in the personal professional development realm, you think anyone who's in it is enlightened in some way. But what I found is that it is not the case. Some people are in these realms for very different reasons, for ego-driven reasons, for reasons that are not

you know, on par with what you're there for. So I've learned how to be discerning and just slow down. And it's almost like walking in the dark, but trusting that the ground is underneath you. Yeah. You were just saying some really amazing little snippets that I am loving. Walking in the dark and trusting the ground is underneath you. I'm so guilty of rushing. I always have been. It's like you meet, you're together, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. And then all of sudden it's like,

Bye, whoa, what? And the last relationship I was in, was very quick. And now I look back on that and it's like, it's like it never even happened. And yes, you got the lessons and the blessings that come from it and the growth and everything happens for a reason. I'm a firm believer in that. But since that relationship and my listeners know this, I just have not been dating. And I've really just taken a back step to date myself, to get to know myself.

Jojo (30:31.935)
so that when I show up when the time is right, I have way more of a foundation of who I am. Do I like how they react to not being able to park the car or am I just with them because they're interested in me and I just like the attention, the ego boost or whatever that is. Instead, the next time or when I choose to further that part of my life, slowing down, getting to know the person and just being like,

Who are you? Who am I with you? What mirror do you hold up to me? What triggers and opposition do you bring into my life? And I don't think that's a common way to enter any sort of dynamic, but really auditing yourself and sitting back instead of getting caught up in the flurry of the romance and the flowers and the this and the excitement and the chemistry and just being like, hold on a second. I think that's, and has sort of been...

the foundation of everything that I've talked about on Inside Out. It's like, who are you on the inside and how does that ripple out into the life that you create for yourself? Because if you're not happy with the life that you have, it's not because of the people around you, it's because of the choices you make. And people don't like that. People don't take responsibility. So, let's get messy. Let's break this all down mentally, emotionally and spiritually. Mentally, what would be your framework for approaching just life and these concepts and this dynamic?

very simply put, just get real with yourself. Yeah, I think, you know, something with, you know, cobalistic wisdom, just, you know, it's like unveiling the wizard behind that, you know, curtain. Do that for yourself. Like, just get real. Just be honest. Just be raw. Just, you know, not flip it with yourself, but just get real. And when you get real, you know, you're cutting the fat, you're landing your plane, you're just being yourself. And I think sometimes that's hard, but once you do it and you get good at it,

Everything that's yours remains and everything that isn't just beautifully fades into the distance and you're able to follow those beautiful breadcrumbs in life. So just get real. How about emotionally? Slow things down. The more you short, you know, when you try to rush things and strain in that way, you short circuit yourself. And so slow things down, slow roll it and meet yourself first before you respond.

Jojo (32:55.398)
Otherwise, it's a reaction that's coming from a much harsher place. Or most likely like a triggered response from something that hasn't healed in your past. Totally. Trauma response, right? From fear. Sometimes in business, we talk about it and we say, I always ask people, is this a response that's coming from lack or abundance? From fear or abundance? From joy or from a must? I must do this versus I get to.

So just when you slow things down, it's like, slow it down like it's your movie, but just slow it down. Read the subtitles, see the context, feel what's within you. And the answers are there. You just have to slow it down. How about spiritually? Keep expanding. And when it's hard, it's like your own lever. You know what I mean? Just keep, it's like that wine opener. Just like, just keep pulling at it, keep pulling at it, keep pulling at it. And from, you know, once in a while you'll get that.

And you'll be able to enjoy that line. then there's another, you know, just keep growing. There's that old adage, every time you climb a mountain, you're just at the bottom of a bigger mountain. Anticipate that. Don't be scared of that. I think sometimes we even think about spirituality that way. when I finished Kabbalah one, then two, then three, then four, okay, then I'm done. Let me give you a disclaimer. The more you go, the deeper you go, the harder it's going.

to be for you to be done. Because the more you expand, the more you know that you know nothing. So it's like this alternate universe where you think that you're getting to somewhere and then you're there and you're like, holy cow, this room is way bigger than I thought. So it's not for the faint of heart, but if you dive into it, if you really dive into yourself spiritually and you seek out those voices and you seek out that community, what's possible for you is just this.

beautiful, beautiful, beautiful experience on this earth, you know, and it'll transcend far beyond what you can do as a human. But you know, like, even when you leave this earth, like it's just going to create this ripple effect. So just keep expanding, keep growing. It doesn't get easier. It gets simpler because you get a deeper alignment with who you are and a deeper knowledge of that. But people don't like change. People have ego.

Jojo (35:17.934)
And the deeper you get with yourself, the more of an ego death you're going to experience. And you have to experience because otherwise you're just going to be attached to the physical plane, which is our 1 % reality. And there's so much more expansion and life that is. And when you slow down and you really let evolution of your soul happen, you start to see that in a completely different way. So thank you so much for joining me on Inside Out. I'm getting messy, getting real.

pulling it all apart. And where can people find you Dr. V? I love the whole messy thing. It's really great. They can find me on my website, victoriagrenman.com or I'm on social media, Dr. Victoria Grenman on Instagram or LinkedIn. I'm available. I love to have talks and communicate with people and help them in any way that I can. And I really love this conversation. It's been beautiful talking to you about the intersection of life and

Couple of ads, just beautiful, thank you. Well, that will all be linked in the show notes. So make sure you go find Dr. V. Thank you again so much for joining me. And you guys know where to find me at underscore inside out dot podcast. Make sure you share this with a friend. You guys, this episode, I don't even know what just happened. That was incredible. And I'm super, super grateful that I met you and we were able to make this happen in a matter of days. A matter of

And that's, and may that happen just as quickly for us in all the ways. Yes. Collapse time. Create that vessel and keep expanding. All right, you guys, happy Wednesday. Have a great week and we'll see you on the next one. Bye.