The Presence Paradox: How Slowing Down Speeds You Up with Dr. Victoria Grinman

In this episode of the Inside OUT Podcast, Jojo is  joined once again by the incredible Dr. Victoria Grinman for a raw and reflective deep dive into what we’re calling The Presence Paradox — how slowing down can actually move your life forward.

They unpack the messy, beautiful layers of personal growth, emotional intelligence, and spiritual realignment. From the power of presence over distraction to trusting the uncomfortable in-between, and explore what it really means to pause with purpose — and how that pause can generate deeper clarity, confidence, and connection.

They also talk about:

• How fear shapes our choices
• Creating space for alignment
• Rewiring patterns in love, life & business
• Dating without desperation
• And choosing presence as a path to abundance

This one’s for the overthinkers, the overdoers, and the ones who are done muscling their way through life.

Let’s get MESy — mentally, emotionally, and spiritually.

Connect with Dr. V on instagram @drvictoriagrinman and learn more about her HERE 

Thank you for listening! Don't forget to follow along on social media @_insideout.podcast, rate and review. And Join the MESy Mailing List for exclusive content, insights on what is coming up and more!

Transcript

Welcome to the Inside Out Podcast. I'm your host JoJo and this is where we will navigate the mess together. That is mental, emotional and spiritual. Let's get messy.

Jojo (00:26.926)
Hi everyone, welcome back and a special welcome back to my guest, Dr. V, Dr. Victoria Grinman. I'm so excited to have her back. You guys, we recorded an episode, last week's episode, and this was recorded back in March. Now we're gonna do another little check-in with Dr. V because we have had a lot of shifts in our lives. A lot of things have changed. A lot of things are moving and grooving and we wanna talk, check in and touch base because

I think it's also really powerful to look back on and reflect when things are being built and what that really looks like and how things are in flux and in flow. So Dr. V, welcome back. Oh, thanks so much, Jojo. I'm excited to have this round two conversation with you. Me too. Me too. So we last left off back in March and you mentioned that

there's been a lot of changes in your life from business standpoints to kind of just everything. And we've sidebar a little bit about this, but can we just unpack a little bit about what's really been going on? Yeah, I love that. It's like what's going on versus what's really going on. yeah. I think this is an interesting conversation and so important actually to have those check-ins because

where we begin and where we are and then where we end up is just so different. And it's a nice point of accountability to be able to have that, whether it's with a friend or a new friend and colleague like you. And it's nice to have that. things have, know, things are always shifting. And one of the beautiful things about

when you're doing your own personal work is to be able to actually see the gains when you're doing the work and it's the hardest, if that makes sense. And do you mean like when you're in the trenches of it? When you're in this, yeah, when you're struggling with it. I talk about this a lot with post-traumatic growth and trusting your struggle and the

Jojo (02:53.026)
the science of that, right? And then also just the experience of trusting being in the trenches of it all. And then when you're actually going through it, not just thinking intellectually about the steps that you need to take, right? But actually saying to oneself, okay, I can't keep doing it the way I've been doing it. I can, but I just, really am ready. I don't want to. And then you,

take those steps that aren't necessarily your nature, right? But you create almost like a third nature within yourself to do things a little bit differently and trust the process and trust yourself and trust yourself in that no matter what happens, you'll be okay. It's so beautiful what you start to notice unfold. I completely agree with you. It's really interesting that you're saying this because I too have been in that unfoldment process where

I'm going against my nature of everything that I've known to do. I'm comfortable in this situation. I could keep easy flowing this way, but do I want to grow? Do I want to evolve? That requires doing something different. And usually if you are someone that's like impulsive or like, let's say you got a text and it rubs you the wrong way, but if you're someone who's going to react to that immediately, what is going against your nature? It's stopping, it's pausing, and it's doing the exact opposite of what

everything in your body wants to do. now ripple that out to every other aspect of your life and really like doing it differently. And I feel like that's where evolution and change and real growth start. And it impacts you and everyone around you. And you become magnetic for the things that are meant for you at the time. It's insane. It's insane. It's so beautiful. And it's, it's everything we know.

Right. It's, it's nothing new. I mean, not all of us know, but if you're in this space of, you know, personal development, you know, this, but then you really start to know it and embody it and live it. And then life really becomes in the moment and present. Yeah. It really becomes a step by step rather than like a, a plan and a force and a whole muscling of everything when it's just not, it's just not it. Yeah.

Jojo (05:19.724)
I think about the one thing that I did this summer and I actually made this decision as the summer was approaching. And it's different than anything I've done in the last maybe 15 years, but every summer or once April approaches, my whole body and mind and spirit wants to go away, right? So I travel and, you know, go abroad and have

all of these plans and always been blessed with people in my life and fun things to do and adventure. And this summer I chose to stay put. I know, big. I did not buy a plane ticket. Wait, did I? I don't think I did. I buy a plane ticket for the summer at the least. I said to myself, I'll give myself leeway. I will travel locally and I will say yes.

to small road trips and I will stay put. And I also decided that I would nest in my space and suspend any thought about the future or whether I'm gonna be here forever or what it should look like. And I would just pour into my home. Wow. That was really hard. Yeah.

That was really hard because all I want to do is be abroad and do new things. But that was something very, very new that I felt a big pull to cultivate. what shifted in your life because you did that? Well, what shift, many things shifted. One, on the business side of things, I cultivated some of the most beautiful new relationships with people who I normally would

otherwise not seek out partnerships with on the collegial work level. I worked on something very exciting for my actual mentorship group, which will be a retreat in September and have been doing things that otherwise are difficult to do unless you're really there to create those.

Jojo (07:35.438)
brand partnerships and relationships and learn how to do something outside the box. My personal life has dramatically improved in the sense that my long lasting relationships have gotten so much care and TLC. yeah, and I've been able to do some of the hard things in some of those relationships that when you're up and about and you're moving around, it's

very distracting to be able to really set those boundaries or have any sort of experiences that, you know, take you to the next level in those relationships. So that's been positive. And some really special opportunities have actually come into my life. Special people have entered my life. And I don't think that would have been possible had I not committed.

myself to being present in my life this summer. There's something really, really difficult and also really precious about that pause, that space. And I have talked about this on previous episodes, but the space in between that moment or moments, or in your case, that the summer to really just be, and even if that's uncomfortable and it probably brings up

a whole plethora of, my God, I could be doing this and FOMO and whatever you used to do or usually do. But even just going against that to be like, no, because I'm creating something different. Even if you can't see it, you've planted a seed in the darkness and you have to sit in it. And in that something grows and we're so unaware when we give ourselves that pause, that space to really just be.

That's where the deepening happens. That's where the new ideas come in. That's where the relationships can be built because I too, I'm always on the go. I'm always like traveling. always, and I've just been like, hold on a second. Like I came back from a vacation 10 days early because I was like, no, no, no, no, no, no. I'm not paying attention to like my soul right now. I'm in distraction mode. Like I need to go into deepening mode to alignment mode.

Jojo (10:00.636)
Yeah. And that's where the heart alignment comes in of like the business, the people, the relation, all of it. Yeah. Yeah. And if we don't, you know, there's this old adage, if you don't pause, the universe will give you a reason to, or right. If like, you, if you don't jump, something will push you. And I've been through enough in my life and I'm still very young and I have my whole life ahead of me, but there's been enough that's happened, right.

seen that occur. If we don't assess those moments that are the in-betweens and actually learn how to be in that space between, then you can't get there without being here first. You know, and it's uncomfortable. It's uncomfortable because you, it's not exciting all the time. You're not always doing the things that you normally do. It's not familiar. It can be boring. It can feel stagnant.

And worst of all, worst of all is fear. It's the fear that if I stop and if I let myself be here, I will never be able to climb out as if it's some ditch. Darkness is some ditch that if you allow yourself to be here, it will always be this way, which couldn't be further from the truth.

I agree with you and I think even in my life in the last five months since we've spoken, really just allowing those beats to happen has magnetized so many things to me because I'm not out there just like overextending, oversharing, over pushing, over giving, over producing and over functioning. It's like, whoa. And the minute you do just like, okay, I can trust that

The things that I've put out and what I'm doing is enough and believe in that and have certainty in that, which is so hard to do. I know I'm the first to admit it. I have the worst time with it and the fear of the unknown, but I've watched it play out in relationship dynamics, in job opportunities, in complete alignment in things that I'm like, wait a second, I haven't muscled this and it's falling into place. Wait, how?

Jojo (12:22.537)
Yeah, because you're removing the distraction. Like, let's get a little bit more granular, right? Like when we think about either a business and we can talk about both or dating, you know, when you don't take the time to actually see what's in front of you and assess not the fear of not having something or the fear of missing out, but you really assess what's there and what's true for you. The decisions you make about the people that are in your life.

and the people that you allow close and then even closer changes naturally because you will make the decisions that are more aligned based on what your values are and based on what you say you really want. But when you're constantly in the throes of obtaining something or having that outcome because of the fear of not having it becomes this vicious cycle. And what we're really doing is we're distracting ourselves and we're stepping away from the very thing that scares us.

which is taking a real good hard look at, maybe this is not for me. And we don't see that next opening. We just see that something's not for me, therefore I will always be insert alone with the wrong partner, unhappy, I'll never be X, Y, and Z. But it's really not the case. It's really not the case. That's not how it works.

But our fear stops us. And the same with business, you know, making decisions. And I see it all the time. My gosh, I'm just thinking about, you know, a couple of the people that I work with, the decisions that we make from a place of, I gotta do this. And if I don't do this, this opportunity will never come. And if I don't work with this person and I don't say yes, and I don't cut myself short, and I, you know, and I don't sabotage myself now, then this opportunity will never come again. And it's just not true.

It's just not true. How would you say like building that like trust or what would be a tip or a tool or like something that you've used to really sit in that because it's easy. It's easy to listen to this and be like, well, yeah, just pause. Like, you know what I mean? Yeah. It's not like, yeah. How do you really align? I, you know, it's

Jojo (14:41.342)
I think that for me, because I mentor people and I have a mentor, right? I have this privilege of also helping others in the same manner. What I've learned the most is that people have their own pace. Even in a relationship when two people have, you know, the same goals or values or the same direction that they're both walking in, each person and you in a business, if you're creating a business, you have your own pace.

So even though I can see what's possible for someone or there's possibility inside of a union, people walk their own path and everybody has their own, you know, story to tell and thing that they have to go through in order to get to that place of knowing and trust that, okay, I'm ready now. But what's interesting is when I was just actually working with someone this morning and due to personal

things, personal family things, had to pause from her business for a good two months, which in our line of work is a long time because people need help and when they need help, they need it now. for a lot of us, we feel the need to, we're healers and we're helpers. So we want to heal and help and please and be there right when people need us. And it's really hard to take that big pause from your business.

But something that was reflected back to me this morning when we reconvened was that because of this natural pause that needed to happen, just her life created this in between space. There has been so much confidence that has resulted from that and that the business is still there. People have not left. If anything, she's continuing with even more confidence.

than she had before because the decisions that were being made were more in alignment and less from a place of fear that if she steps away or if she says no, it will go away, you know, and somehow magically disappear. And so I think it starts with a knowing that everyone has their own pace and it doesn't happen overnight. Thirdly, I think it takes someone willing to take small steps.

Jojo (17:06.969)
and ask oneself, what's one thing that I can do today that is representative and aligned with where it is I want to be? It could be something as small as taking a new route to work. If someone's feeling mundane and it's not, there's no variety or it's not exciting, or they feel like there's

There's no control over their schedule. What's one thing in your day that you can do that brings in a different energy, an energy of something that you would like to invite? It doesn't necessarily have to be part of your business, but the reason that I'm sharing this is because in order for new energy to come and be sustained, we have to invite it sometimes. It doesn't just come. We become a magnet for it. But those actions,

have to be in motion. That's what emotion is. It's energy in motion and we have to create that and generate that in our lives. I think that's where, you know, we've talked about this in the last episode, I believe, where we talk about free will, right? Or, you know, what is our will? does it even exist? And in many ways, we're given these opportunities to create and generate based on the decisions that we make.

And then that brings new energy and a new excitement and a confidence. And then once you build that confidence, day in and day out and new things and one foot in front of the other and you meet someone new and you say yes when you would normally say no, then it builds that confidence and then it leads to this courage to take those really, really big leaps, right? I'll give you an example, a funny one about my dating life. Okay. You know, the

the Jewish matchmaker. So through some incredible contacts and just natural course of things, somebody put me in touch with one of the head coaches for her based in New York. And I had this really beautiful conversation and it lasted quite some time, almost two hours. And at the end of it, the person said, really, I gotta be honest, I really don't think that there's anything wrong here.

Jojo (19:29.531)
everything's fine with you. It's not a quality issue, it's a quantity issue. So I said, hold on a second, hold the phone. I don't understand. It's a quantity, you know what I mean? Because what does that mean? So I felt out of control because I said, what do you mean? There's nothing I can do. There's nothing I can do to improve. I'm always looking to improve. What can I do to improve? And the feedback.

was what I'm saying to you. It was, it's a quantity issue. Meaning, if you could, and she shared with me that there are services out there which I didn't opt into, but if you could just opt into being a little bit more active, but intentionally active in this space of dating, things will be different for you.

And I said to myself, what a lot of people say when I mentor them, but how? And they try to intellectualize these steps. And she said, don't intellectualize it so much. Just figure out for yourself, what does it look like for you to be more active? And me personally, I love games, not games with the heart, but I love playing little games with myself, you know, and just kind of getting myself through those tough moments.

by psyching myself into having fun. Fun and adventure is really big deal for me. So I said to myself, okay, I'm going to play a game. And the game is, when I'm on these apps, this is not the only way I meet people, but I am going to just play a 10 person swipe game. And I said, I'm going to swipe 10 times. And if I land on someone where I'm swiping right, which means I'm interested,

then I'm going to start over 10 times. wow. Yeah. So if I swipe left 10 times, I close that app for the day and I move on to another one. And then the other game I played with myself was if someone writes me and we've matched or I've matched with them, I have to respond to them. Okay. So I did this because it was more fun than just blindly, you know,

Jojo (21:52.126)
doing it or kind of being bored about it. And what the result was, the result was way more connection. There was anticipation, right? So I generated this anticipation of like, what's it gonna be today? Like this is fun. they're like, who's gonna pop up? And what are they gonna say? And like, will they be bantering? All of a sudden,

all of this excitement about what's around the corner started to generate for me. And I won't say that that was it, right? But I think that the purpose for me was how do I generate that sense of excitement and adventure inside of something that normally feels so scary and so difficult to manage in our busy lives? And so that's just an example of something that

someone can do, right? And then generate that within that space. And so many beautiful things happen from that. Yeah, I really like what you said, but the two that really stick with me are making it a game, like a competitiveness almost like against yourself of like, how can I like really bring myself to this? Because your soulmate's not going to knock on your door. You have to like do something different. Yeah. You said on last week's episode that

it's very interesting to you to notice who you're attracting into your life. And that just resonated with me now because alignment is not just the physical world, it's energy. It's what you're doing that magnetizes what you karmically deal with, right? And it's probably, probably a lot of shifts are happening in both of our worlds because of alignment.

And getting into alignment and noticing what that is for you is really hard, but it's great and it's key and it's important. yeah, I love that. think that's just such a great little, a great way to make it fun so that you're not just like in this like, I hate to say the word desperation energy, but like that you're like, not like it's almost like lack. Like, like I'm just never gonna meet someone. Like that's a very like down energy and you're gonna

Jojo (24:18.144)
you're not going to if that's what you keep feeling. On the vibration scale, I would say that that's a very low vibe energy, right? That desperation. And what we try to do is we try to actually say things and do things that bring us to a vibration that's higher. And I think that one of the other things that happens a lot with dating

is we tend to blame the other person for not meeting the expectations that we had for them on our date. What's interesting about that is we attract who we are. And so when I was dating in the last maybe year or year and a half, it was so fun for me to get to that first date to see who did I attract and what do they have to teach me. And maybe I didn't do this.

face to face, I always, not always, but in the last year and a half, I started to thank them in my mind. Like, thank you. Thank you for coming into my life. They all taught me something, something about what I wanted, something about what I didn't, something about myself. And it's lovely because once you do that, once you can do that, everything feels really abundant. Like, what a beautiful date, what a beautiful dinner, what a beautiful sunset, what a nice walk.

what a nice mirror to myself. Wow. That person is anxious. Holy cow. Is that what I'm like when I'm right? Or wow, that lateness. I've been sitting here for 30 minutes waiting for this dude. Like that doesn't feel so good. I'm starting to sweat. Like these shoes are not meant to be sitting at a bar at a high tap. Right. Like, and so it's just like, what does that feel like when someone's so late? Because I used to have that in my, in my past where, you know, time was really hard for me to manage and

Um, so when you start looking at things as gifts and, little, you know, just crumbs on your path, leading you to the next thing that feels more aligned. think it creates and generates that energy of abundance, which is what we want that it's abundant. There's so not abundant where, you know, there's so many people that I'm not going to settle so much as, wow, there's so many people in this world and there are so many opportunities.

Jojo (26:38.399)
to meet interesting, enlightened, aligned people that might become a friend or might become someone that you can introduce to someone else, right? Like that sliding doors concept of you never know. And so when you become that, you become a magnet for even more. Within that pool, there's so much opportunity and you become magnetic because you are positive. Now, does it mean that you're not going to have negative moments?

No, but those negative moments are not the sum of who you are. They're just opportunities for you to show up in a different way or to show up and to have an experience in this life. And there's something to be said for that pace and that presence. It comes from, as you also said in last episode, slow rolling it and really taking it step by step. And God, it is so hard for me to just...

be present and it's something I'm actively working on. There's something in the stars right now or in the water or something because I feel like this conversation keeps coming up in every scenario that I'm in. I'm not even kidding. It's just like, of course it's coming up right now. But, you've been saying it, it's doing your due diligence in yourself to just like have the acuity and the awareness of where am I coming from? Do I like this? How does this sit with me? What's going on here?

Oh, he does X, Y, and Z. Oh, they, you know, but in every, in everything, not just, not in just relationships or really just, just everything. Um, I want to come back to presence because I think that's, that's so hard. We're always future tripping. always trying to like, analyze, well, how does this fit in the logistics and the, like getting ahead of ourselves and in the fears of the unknown and how it all kind of

grounds and the reality and the reality is we don't need to figure that out. The energies will do what they do and spiritually everything will happen the way it's supposed to if you let go and stop forcing. And I think that is so tough to just allow. But as you said, like the presence and just like sitting back.

Jojo (29:02.006)
There's a wonderful book by David Hawkins. It's a little dense, but it might be good for those that are on this path of understanding energy and are also science driven called Power versus Force. And it's really understanding the distinction between power and force. And because of our fears and because of our human nature and because of the limitations of our ability to really visualize what's possible for us.

we do get stuck in those fears, no matter how smart or accomplished or successful we are, because at the end of the day, we are all human and we're all bound by these constraints in this human form, right, of what's possible. You know, you can buy tickets to something and it'll be canceled. You can, you know, fall in love and find the love of your life and they might die before their time or before it received their time.

There's just so many things that are unknown and we as humans try to create all of these different. Like almost a semblance of control. Yeah, very much because we have a need for certainty, but there is an unhealthy way and a healthy way to get our need for certainty. Right. And so when we get stuck in our fears and we settle for something just to have it, I always say, and

maybe this comes from being married and divorced, but by no means do I regret that decision. And it really, I bear so many fruits from that decision in my life. And I wish everybody in that situation well. And it was one of the most beautiful as well as difficult and challenging times of my life. But one of the things that I recognize is that when you have these big momentous

things, know, a graduation or a funeral or a wedding. When you find that person and you say yes, people will come, people will celebrate, people will bring gifts, they will bring money. You know, you will have that cake, you will have that party, the DJ will be great. And then about a week, two weeks, three weeks a month, you are left with that person and you in your life and things are status quo.

Jojo (31:17.481)
And it's the same with funerals. know, someone dies and people are there for you and they bring the food and there's shiva and there's all of these different things and there's a wake and all that. And then you are left with the decisions that you've made. Right. So when we, I always say like when you rush for the outcome, because you feel that the outcome will give you that certainty of, okay, I'm good now. Okay. I'm safe. Right. It's a false sense of certainty.

And then you're left with dealing with the aftermath of the decisions that you make. Yeah. And people are always like rushing for an outcome. I want to get engaged. And it's like, okay, the engagement happens. I want to get married, get married. then maybe the divorce happens because you're not sitting in like, is this actually right for me? Am I actually doing this because this is the next thing to do because people expect it because that's what society has told us? Or am I doing that because it comes from within, because it comes from true?

want an alignment of that's what I need and see my future. Yes. Yes. And it takes something. And listen, it's such an interesting thing to be in this part of life because I really do understand that wisdom comes with time. And it's an interesting thing because when you're younger, before you have certain experiences, it's very hard to understand the concepts we're talking about.

We can intellectualize them, but until you have those experiences, it doesn't feel as embodied. Does that make sense? absolutely. It's like first love. It's like you want to also fasten, my gosh, and you think you're going to be together forever. then relationship after relationship happens after that. And you start to realize, this isn't the way. You actually need to take your time. You actually need to make sure you're not missing anything and truly building a foundation, really getting to know someone.

really like, not just like meeting a bit even in business, like a business partner being like, okay, you have the money, I have the idea, collaborate, and you don't actually know if you're compatible at all. It's like, wait. Yes. There's a mantra that I say to myself and I sometimes say it and it's funny, I have a mentee who's a tad younger than myself and she really doesn't like it when I say it, but I say, you've got to slow it down to speed up.

Jojo (33:41.925)
You really have to slow down in order to speed up. And sometimes people think, well, does that mean I have to stop doing what I'm doing and I have to just like be bored? Like, what do you mean slow down? I don't want to slow down. This feels good. But you do have to slow roll it and everything that is going to happen will happen, but there's no rush. There really is no rush. Sometimes we rush because we think that if we don't

grab it right or have it right now, it will disappear. But it's almost like pulling an unripened fruit from its branch. know? Yeah, I'm wow. This is, I'm not sure if I'm going to cut this out or not, but just for my, just for context, I'm navigating something in my life where a lot of patients and

slowing down and doing the exact polar opposite of what I've always done is, is seemingly the answer right now. And, and not that I want to make this fast. I want this to be super conscious and very intentional. And it is being that way, but if things aren't moving forward, then they won't move forward. But like I've noticed, cause it's been a process.

and not a linear one at that. It's been very logically, this doesn't make sense. But spiritually watching how things have just fallen into place because of trusting the darkness and the process and like letting go and surrendering and all of the things that we're talking about, slow rolling it, taking it step by step. Things have been so grounding and effortlessly flowing because of doing exactly the opposite of what I've always consciously done. Yeah. But that was an active

conscious decision because I had to rewire almost this. I feel like I'm speaking in paradoxes and tongues right now, but like I had to go against my subconscious consciously in order to rewire what is what is right now. And that is like, it feels so backwards because you're like, wait a second. If I'm not, if I'm not actively doing something about this, how does this work?

Jojo (36:06.193)
But then you're like, wait a second, then I'm doing everything I've always done. And that also didn't work or doesn't work. Yeah. And it's about being a, yeah, it's, and you bring up such an important point and I appreciate you sharing that because it's really about being about it. And I know we've, we've talked about this and beat this to a pulp in terms of the concept of being versus doing, but we don't know how to sometimes be about it because fear is something that activates

our insides. Fear is tied to gut issues. You we talked about the gut brain connection. Fear is tied to activation. It's a fight or flight activation within our body. And we're always doing, doing, doing, doing, doing, doing. And what happens is we're not being about something. And when we're not being about something, we're not really in touch with or embodied enough to understand what it is that's happening for us when we're in front of someone.

when we're having a certain conversation, when someone is asking us if something and it doesn't feel good, instead of saying no, we say yes, because we're not embodied, because fear is what's there. So if you can find a way to access teachings, learnings, classes, conversations, podcasts that bring more enlightenment around how to be more embodied.

and how to pause and slow things down for yourself, you will notice that everything in your life speeds up just to the perfect pace that you would want it. But if you try to make, yeah, yeah. And if you try to make things happen and you try to push and force, right, whether it's a parent with their child, whether it's a relationship, whether it's a meeting,

or a certain collaboration, it will happen. Don't get me wrong. I don't want anyone to think that you can't make things happen. But what you'll notice is it will extinguish. It will extinguish and it will not be sustained because it's not aligned. So we as humans can certainly make things happen. And at the same time, I think it's learning about when are you forcing it and when are you allowing it?

Jojo (38:32.412)
And there's a huge difference between the two. And then once you become a master of your own mechanism and under, and this is why, this is why astrology has become so imperative for me to understand. This is why understanding the metaphysical and energy and how that works and, and, know, within us is so important because once you start to understand your own mechanisms,

and how you work and how you tick and patterns within yourself, right, which often comes from therapy. You I love doing that with my clients is helping them understand their patterns and how things work and what they tend to do. What we notice is we're not so different from one another and everybody has patterns and everybody has, you know, their own shtick. And it's really about learning how to be more. And then when you're being, then you can become whatever you want, you know?

You can really learn how to go against your human nature to transcend this, you know, way of being. And you can elevate spiritually, emotionally, you can elevate the people in your, you know, the kinds of people that come into your life and the kinds of connections that you have. All of a sudden you start to see things as attractive that before you never thought was attractive at all.

You start to notice that certain feelings in your body that once activated and excited you and turned you on are no longer charged for you. There's something that you may be, you know, miss a little bit and grieve, but you start to mourn because you've become healthier and you've become attuned to liking more healthy feelings within. All of these things, like food starts to taste different. You might even eat differently.

Right? And choose differently, not because your kosher or because of any rule, but because it's just what feels better for your spirit. You know what I mean? Like things just start to change and you become different. And that's the becoming. It's not like you snap your finger and you're just different. It's really that commitment to self leadership that you talked about before, which is taking yourself seriously enough to explore what else is possible.

Jojo (40:50.782)
by doing the thing that doesn't feel good. Not, you know, that doesn't feel comfortable. Right, and that's again, like transcends all of the old patterning and completely rewires everything because it's all different. But we don't, I truly believe that there's not enough of us on this planet, which is sad for me to say and admit, that are actively doing this work.

to get on the other side of that. I think the monotony and the complacency of life and just like, yeah, whatever does override that want to evolve and grow and change and do it all differently. So I want to get messy with this mentally, emotionally, and spiritually. you were saying about the alignment aspect.

mentally for you, how does that show up when you are out of alignment? Mentally, I know that when I'm out of alignment in any aspect of my life, my anxiety is revved up to the max. It doesn't necessarily mean that the situation, the person, the collaboration or the project is wrong, but it means that I'm out of alignment.

There's like a miss balance or an unbalanced. Yes, there's an imbalance. Oh my God. Yes, imbalance. Yes, I said. then I get, right. And I get to say, am I being unclear? Am I, is there something, what's happening over here? And then when I ask myself that question, things become clear. It's either the situation's not for me and I just haven't made that.

deliberate communication to close the door and move forward. Or there's something within me that's coming up because of what I've been presented with. And, you know, that's something for me to work through. When the anxious thoughts, the old narratives about myself, that unanswerable question of, I, everyone has their own, but mine is always, am I good enough? Am I lovable? You're saying everything that that's, that would be my answer. And mine is also.

Jojo (43:15.252)
I'm not enough or am I enough? Yeah. Fill you there. How about emotionally? What would the emotional misalignment be for you? Emotionally, it's what accompanies those thoughts, which is the opposite of that, which would be the other side of the spectrum of just being down. You know, there's a, there's a mechanism within me that I've learned that whenever I'm happy or something good happens, there's like this mechanism within me, this part of me that says,

Sit back down. Don't get so happy. The other shoe's going to drop. Don't you wait. Yeah. it's just kind of like- I know. And this is the beautiful thing when we're vulnerable and we share this so openly is that we see that we're not so different. These are just human nature things that happen because of stuff. We don't have the same story, but yeah, it's the same stuff.

Everyone has a different flavor of it, but yeah, that's what happens for me is like, don't get too happy. This too will end. My therapist a couple of years ago said something amazing to me, Jojo. said, Victoria, if you choose to be in love again, it will end. The person will either die or the relationship will end, right? But it always ends. So she said, if you want me to just pop your balloon right now, like...

there's no need to wait till the end of the movie, it will end. So let's put that to rest. And so when she said that, on one hand, I was morbidly upset about that because who wants an ending like that? But on the other hand, it had me realize that it's not about making it last forever. It's about being present in the moment with what we have and using presence.

as the next stepping stone to where we're going to end up and so on and so forth. And that's the unfolding of our life experience. So I think for me emotionally, it's that when I start to feel sad or down and distracted and just, and then again, I ask myself, is it something that's inherent in the person that I'm with or the situation that I'm cultivating?

Jojo (45:33.907)
Or is this something that's just old stuff within me? And I got to tell you a lot, 85 % of the time it's something within me. And when I clear that, because I have my mechanisms of doing that too, right? I can move on, I can go on and I can allow for things to actually unfold and happen for me. So spiritually, what are the mechanisms that you use to realign? Spiritually, I have a huge toolbox at this point in my life and

I will, you know, shout out my therapist, my mentor, my team, right? But I think it's the stuff that I've learned to do for me. So I walk movement and nature. So being around trees and nature and with myself, that alone time, not to sound like I'm overreaching here, but I see God when I walk in nature, you know, and I feel, I feel it.

in my body and it rejuvenates me and it really allows me to hear the voices in my own head speaking to me and really understand myself. So that's one. Meditation, whether it's guided, there are those days where guided meditation is it, or really sitting with a sound, like my air conditioning was it it this morning. That's a very,

big go-to for me is to pause and just slow things down. A specific meditation that I always lean on is called twin hearts. And it comes from the pranic energy healing field that I'm in. And it's the twin hearts or the heart and the crown chakra. And the whole meditation is really guided around gratitude and the focus on peace and love. And it's an outward expression of

within me outward. And I think focusing on others and helping other people is a huge spiritual practice that has gotten me out of so many sticky moments in my mind where things are so self-centered and narcissistic at times, not clinically narcissistic, but just narcissistic. Like when you're anxious or you're depressed, you're always thinking about you, you, you. And so coming out of that and thinking about others and really allowing myself to just think well,

Jojo (47:56.41)
good for others, you know, and what can I do and helping them really takes me out of that space. And, you know, more practical tools, prayer, I've become more aligned with what prayer means to me, how I want to talk to God. I believe in God, but praying to God has not been something that I ever really learned how to do. I was told how to do it, but it wasn't something that I really dived into for myself until I started studying Kabbalah.

obviously going to classes, you know, where we met at the center and being in community with others who are imperfect and also aligned with, you know, elevating themselves and others around them. And, and really just trusting myself, JoJo, like I've got crystals and I have my plants and really seeing energy and light in everything, even if it's

Well, that is a very extensive toolbox. I know. No, thank you for sharing that. That's a lot of, I think people can resonate because sometimes people will not resonate if you just shared one thing, for instance. People might be, meditation doesn't work for me. For me, meditation doesn't work because I can't just turn my brain off. But walking in nature and doing those other things like gratitude and giving and those are a part of...

things that would work for me, for instance. I really, really appreciate you sharing all that. think that's definitely going to resonate with a lot of people. Well, thank you so much for joining me again on Inside Out. And this time it will not take five months for this episode to find the world. And in the meantime, where can people find you and connect with you? I am always on Instagram.

at Dr. Victoria Grinman and you can find me on my website, victoriagrinman.com. And if you email me, I will always reply. I'm very much there. So if you need me, I'm there as a support. And thank you so much for having me again, Jojo. Thank you. And did you want to plug your mentorship or retreat that's happening in September? Sure. Yeah, absolutely. If there is anyone out there who is a therapist or in the healthcare field and you are

Jojo (50:13.197)
starting a business or elevating your business and you'd like to be part of a community of aligned professionals who are doing the same, please check out the round table. It's a small curated high touch group mentorship. And in September we are having a small retreat in a beautiful place in Westchester, New York. And it'll be really wonderful and connected.

So if it's something that you're interested in doing and you've been thinking about it, because I know that so many people have, please get in touch and I'd love to talk to you about it some more. Well, thank you so much. And all of this will be linked down in the show notes. You guys know where to find me at underscore inside out dot podcast. Make sure you pause, take a moment, think of three people you could share this episode with and then send it their way. All right, you guys have a great week. Bye.