The 7 Keys to Wellness: A Nervous System Reset with Kiana & Andrew Joyner

Everyone's nervous system is jacked. We're vibrating at high levels, stuck in the rat race, and calling a shopping spree "self-care." On this episode of Inside OUT, Jojo sits down with married therapist + coach duo Kiana and Andrew of Soul Journey Project to break down what real wellness looks like, the kind that actually resets your nervous system instead of just looking good on TikTok. We walk through their 7 Keys to Wellness, one by one, with practical, no-cost ways to bring each one into a busy life. Then we get into co-regulation: what actually happens when two dysregulated people try to communicate, and the difference between a relationship and a true partnership. This one's all about going internal for the external, not the other way around.

Connect with Kiana & Andrew:

• Website + newsletter: souljourneyproject.com
• Their journal, Take the Step
• Instagram & Facebook:  @SoulJourneyProject

If this resonated, take a deep breath, think of one person who needs to hear it, and send it to them.

Let's get MESy!

Thank you for listening! Don't forget to follow along on social media @_insideout.podcast, rate and review. And Join the MESy Mailing List for exclusive content, insights on what is coming up and more! 

Transcript

speaker-0 (00:07.33)
Welcome to the Inside Out Podcast. I'm your host Jojo and this is where we navigate the mess together. That is mental, emotional, and spiritual. Let's get messy.

speaker-0 (00:26.158)
Hi everyone, welcome back to Inside Out. I'm really excited because today I have Kiana and Andrew joiner with me. You guys, this is a married therapist and coach duo from Soul Journey and Therapy Coaching Services, and they help couples and individuals find clarity and grow through culturally aligned care. They break down the unspoken pressure that shows up during financial stress, major life transitions, and high achievement seasons.

They're also certified wealth educators, which means they get into money, values, and emotional regulation and how all of that collides inside of a partnership. So today we're getting into their article, The Seven Keys to Wellness A Nervous System Reset, and how that applies to us. And we're gonna break down all of that and exactly what that looks like. So Kiana and Andrew, welcome to Inside Out.

speaker-1 (01:16.822)
Thanks for having us, Shell Joe.

speaker-2 (01:17.976)
Yeah, we're excited to be here. Thank you.

speaker-0 (01:19.82)
Really excited that you guys are with me. And I just wanted to jump right into it with the the modern self-care. And I you guys can't see me, but I'm putting air quotes around self-care because it's kind of seems to be this like fad of like take a bubble bath or like go on a shopping spree or like take a vacation. And that's not really solving our issues. So what can you really like say to that, you know, being that that's what you're seeing in these dysregulated sort of individuals and couples?

speaker-1 (01:48.344)
Yes, I think we're seeing overall that people's nervous systems are jacked. They are literally vibrating at high levels. Everyone's just on edge. Everyone's stressed. People don't actually know how to relax. So then when they think about self-care, there's this industrialized view of what self-care is. It's so commercialized at this point that you think you have to spend money.

in order to regulate your nervous system. So if money is a barrier, well I guess you're screwed. You know, and just people find themselves in this never ending cycle of finding peace from an external source rather than looking inward.

speaker-2 (02:35.266)
Yeah. Yeah, I think that's a really good way to put it, Kiana. like she said, everything is just so commercialized now. You know, we think fitness is wearing a Fitbit. Or because you wear athleisure, you know, clothing, that means you're in shape, you know, and it's just become a status symbol, more so than something that's really useful, and helps us move closer to our goals of being more well.

And so that was kind of the motivation behind our article is really simplifying what does wellness really look like from a practical standpoint, where we can actually see that nervous system reset. You know, we can see our anxiety and stress levels go down. We have a stronger sense of peace, of contentment in the moment, and we're not striving to have this, you know, tweetable, tick tockable wellness routine.

and it's just something that is basic, clear, concise, but effective.

speaker-0 (03:40.962)
Well, let's get right into it. So the seven keys of wellness are rest, reflect, presence, movement, play, create, and community. So I want to walk through all of these with you guys because I think we look at those those seven words, and people might say, those are like buzzwords. But how do we take it from the external? How do we take it from these are quick fixes in our lives and things that we can

not spend money on, like you said, Kiana, which I really like. It's not just like going and getting that massage like getting that manicure. It's like, it's really, what can I do inside? And you guys, that's what we're all about on inside out. Internal for the external, not the other way around. And that's where our society is so jacked and confused because it's like we're doing it completely flipped. It's all upside down. So let's go through each one and break them down because I think this can really

open up some doors and get rid of some blockades that are in people's way. So let's start with rest. What does that mean? What does it mean to truly rest? Cause someone can just be like, okay, I'm gonna rest on my couch, but like they're picking up their phone, they're scrolling on social media, there's all these, what does that mean and how do people really, you know, live in that?

speaker-1 (04:55.798)
Yeah, so the key with rest is people tend to think sleep. You know, so they think if I sleep more, I won't feel so tired. I won't feel so drained. But there's several other types of rest that we may need. You could be getting eight hours of sleep and still feel drained and not know what's going on because of the reasons you just said. Are we resting from social media? You know, if you're on a screen all day for work and then you're on the couch and you're on another screen or watching another screen.

When does your brain actually get to slow down? When are we taking breaks from all of the chaos and all of the noise? Are we allowing just the quiet of the moment to just slow us down? So it's really thinking about rest in different ways, whether it is socially, whether it's emotionally, you know, that maybe boundaries, maybe boundaries you need to put in place with certain relationships to help you rest.

There may need to be structures of okay, no phones at the dinner table, or you know, I'm not gonna be on my phone after this time of night, just to allow the brain time to slow down.

speaker-0 (06:07.714)
I wanna kind of argue that point. Cause what if you're a doctor or someone who's on call a lot or you know, you you can't just not look at your phone because that's your entire connection to work and sometimes you are on call like a twenty four seven situation. What would you say to those people? Because I do know I have those listeners and people are gonna be like, Yeah, but I can't just like put my phone down.

speaker-2 (06:30.21)
Yeah, so it's a difference between, you know, back in the day, you know, doctors had pagers and they didn't have cell phones. and it's just about, you know what, when I'm not in the clinic or I'm not in the ER, I'm being very intentional with how I'm spending my time. Right. So instead of using that time to then just scroll TikTok or Instagram or YouTube, I don't have to be looking at my phone to be able to answer a call.

Right. So I can do something else intentionally with that time that helps me recharge. So whether that's just taking a nice walk outside in nature or doing, you know, exercise, some gentle exercises, some yoga or Pilates or whatever is regenerative to your body. it might be taking a nap, but doing that intentionally and not just crashing on the couch from exhaustion. you know, so it's it's about the intentionality behind what we're doing with the time.

when we're not on the go for our jobs or our careers or what have you. it's not saying like obviously people are busy and they have all the things that you're doing. I mean, we're very busy. We work pretty much seven days a week from our corporate roles, from our j from our business. We have a we have a child, you know, we we have a lot going on as well. But we also recognize we do have some downtime. And if we're not intentional, that downtime will just be absorbed by the whims of

the day. You know what I'm saying? So you have to kind of take back your power in a sense and be intentional about what I'm going to do to rest.

speaker-1 (08:07.906)
Yeah. And I would say too that if we allow ourselves to have an excuse, it will me it will remain an excuse. You know, so really kind of having the mindset of how can I rest versus why I can't. Mm-hmm.

speaker-0 (08:22.614)
Mm. Yeah, I really like what you said there because I think, you know, we we as an as a society nowadays start to see, there's not enough hours in the day, all these people are doing S, Y, and Z. I need to do more, more, more, more, more. And then there's the burnout. And it's not intentional. It's because it's a rat race. It's because it's like this game of ketchup and mustard. It doesn't stop. So let's get into the next one, which is reflect.

We need to reflect on our own lives and actually get honest with ourselves and be like, Well, okay, if I can't rest, why is that? And maybe go a step deeper and to really reflect. What are your what are your tips and keys to this to this aspect?

speaker-2 (09:07.458)
Yeah, reflection is one of those ones that I mean, people don't really talk about very often, but is definitely critical in how human beings learn. you know, we often learn through reflecting and observing the results that we've gotten. so taking that time again, being intentional about it, and you'll hear that word a lot, intentionality, whether that's through meditation practice or journaling practice, or again.

You can combine some of these things, right? So if you're taking a walk to help you rest and and decompress, you can also use that time to reflect and just kind of think about things in a more non-judgmental perspective. Totally. Right. It's not just reflecting in anxiety or reflecting in judgment. It's more just allowing those golden nuggets from our experience to really s really settle in.

speaker-1 (09:48.45)
Observer.

speaker-2 (10:04.482)
And understand, okay, I did this and maybe I need to pivot over here just a little bit. or what is the meaning of the work that I'm doing? What is the meaning behind all this busyness that I see in my life? Am I actually moving closer towards my goals and what I want to achieve? Or am I just doing busy work? You know what I'm saying? So the reflection is really important. Again, it gives us that opportunity to really slow down.

review our lives, review our journey. Are we on the right path? Do I need to pivot? Do I need to drop something? Do I need to add something? and you can do that through whatever practice resonates with you, whether that's prayer, meditation, journaling, you know, what have you.

speaker-1 (10:50.99)
Yeah, I would add too that many times people just do things and don't even know why they're doing it. You know, we're just kind of stuck in this autopilot. You know, why do you raise your voice when you get upset? Why why is that a default for you? Or why are you doing the work you're doing? Why did you pick that job? Why do you have that routine? And many times people don't actually think about why they're doing what they're doing.

They're just robots.

speaker-2 (11:22.39)
It's trapped in the like you said, in the rat race. Yeah. Totally.

speaker-1 (11:27.564)
Yep. And until we actually reflect on well, why am I doing what I'm doing? Can I do something different? That's the value of being human beings, that we have the choice to pivot. We have the choice to do something different. We don't just have to live off of instinct. But if we're not taking time to reflect, we will get stuck in that cycle. Yeah.

speaker-0 (11:49.848)
I know I have a lot of listeners who want these changes to happen. And some of the feedback that I've gotten is like, okay, well, like meditation and journaling, like I don't really identify with that. And I wanted to share something that I I was watching a a reality TV show the other day. I just had it on the background. I was cooking and it was a dating show and they don't have any of their devices, their phones, but they're given journals and they're able to like write a lot and really reflect. And it was so unnatural for a lot of these people.

But in hindsight and looking back, it was like they were really able to uncover certain patterns and behaviors and why I do this and why I, you know, put blame on her or that partnership or whatever. And it's it does feel very unnatural. When you start doing something that you're not used to, whether that is meditation or journal, and I'm gonna use journaling as the the point here because

I got into journaling a while ago and it was so weird in the beginning. So weird. And now I'm I'm a little bit removed from it, but I've noticed how much farther along I get in my own self and realizing where I'm at in my life and what needs to pivot and change if I am really conscious about that every single day. You know, like pick and choose how much you really want to do it. But now that I'm not doing it as much, I'm really seeing whoa, like

I'm not as conscious. I'm not as intentional. I'm not as, wait, why is this happening? It is just like the the monotony. And the more I like step back and I'm like, hang on. Yeah, I'm gonna like brain dump everything onto a page. But if you do that, you really start to see the wirings. And if you are not judgmental with yourself and you're like, I'm going to write down everything I'm thinking, no one's gonna read this, burn it one day if you need to. But

You you do start to uncover it. So I really want to double click on that because like this dating show and like just my personal experience and what Kiana and Andrew are saying, it really will help you uncover things that like are subconscious because you start to see them in patterns, the same things coming up, and you're like, But it doesn't happen consciously because we can go through every single day, be sitting and doing the same thing, and then you're just like,

speaker-0 (14:12.28)
Wait a second, how am I here? What am I? And it's just like it it doesn't make sense. And then you forget little tiny things along the way. But if you're really conscious in those moments, you start to see the the deeper layers.

speaker-1 (14:24.886)
Yes, absolutely. And exactly what you're explaining is why we published our own journal called Take the Step. Yes, yes, take the step, a journal to propel you towards real change. Because to your point, a lot of people don't even know where to start when it comes to journaling. You know, they end up just like you said, mind dumping, but then sometimes don't even know how to pick up the pieces after that. How do I get to a solution? So our journal entries for every journal entry, there's a six step

process to get you from what is the problem, what are my thoughts and feelings about it, to what's one step that I'm going to take to actually make some progress. So that's why we created that to as an avenue to help people reflect. And it it takes the pressure off of having to do it perfect or not knowing where to start, feeling like I'm going to just overthink if I write something down.

And it just gives you a clear process for every entry, how to do it and all of that as well.

speaker-0 (15:28.052)
I love that. Thank you for sharing that. You guys, that's gonna be linked in the show notes. So if you need to get that journal, you need to start somewhere, take the step.

speaker-1 (15:35.872)
Absolutely.

speaker-0 (15:38.008)
So the next one's presence.

speaker-2 (15:39.532)
Yeah, so this one is really about shifting from the doing to the being. it's really doesn't matter what we are doing. It's how we are doing it, right? Are we doing it from this place of I'm living in the future, or I'm living in the past, or I'm worried about this thing over here, I'm worried about this thing over there, versus just being in the present moment, being where your feet are. Right? Mm-hmm.

And just experiencing this, whatever this is, wherever you find yourself, is experiencing it fully. And so you could be doing the dishes and you can do it from a place of presence, right? You could be folding the laundry, doing it from a place of presence, being here, feeling the fabric in your hands as you're folding your towels, right? You could be in the garden, just enjoying the the scenery, seeing the

Plants, seeing the animals, hearing the sounds, smelling the smells, engaging your senses in the hearing now. Mm-hmm. Right. And that brings just such a sense of well-being and peace and serenity into a very busy life. Because what we learn and discover and see in ourselves is we spend so much time being anxious about the future, right? Or being regretful and depressed about the past.

You know, and we rarely spend a lot of time in the here and now. so taking that time to just be present, be where you are, be where your feet are. and it really just helps bring us a sense of well being into our lives. and it's so important because we do, like you said, the rat race, the social media, the society just makes you feel like you have to just stay on the go. I'm always chasing something.

Right. but in the here and now everything's okay. All is well. All is well in the here and now. Right? I my needs are met in this present moment. And so spending as much time in the present moment as you can can bring some some wellness to your life.

speaker-1 (17:41.506)
Mm-hmm.

speaker-0 (17:57.356)
I mean we're human we're human beings. We're not human doings. And I think we get so caught up in do do do go go go. And I like what you said, just be here, be where your feet are.

speaker-1 (18:07.896)
Yeah, nothing to add to that. That was spot on. Spot on.

speaker-0 (18:14.926)
So the next one that you guys talk about is movement.

speaker-1 (18:18.68)
Yes, we if you think about our society, especially the Western society, we are very sedentary as a people. we are at desks, we're we're not walking a whole lot, we have vehicles to take us where we want to be, even if it's just around the corner to the grocery store, right? We don't move as much as we used to. And we know that stress is the number one cause of disease.

So we need to be more intentional about releasing that pressure that gets built up in the body, trauma gets stuck in the body, stress gets stuck in the body. And if we're not intentional about moving in some way, that energy has nowhere to go but to turn into sickness and disease. So when we think about wellness, not forgetting about how our body is connected to every single thing.

And not siloing the different parts of ourselves either. So movement can look like a simple walk. It can be moving in place. It can be running. It could be dancing. Right. Like it doesn't have to be these things that don't seem fun. Like running isn't fun to me, but dancing, I can do that all night. Right. So choose a movement that you actually enjoy and do it.

Doesn't even have to be for long. You could trampoline, right? Jump on a trampoline. You could, you know, any of those things. It's just pick some form of movement and do that consistently because you need to release that tension and pressure that's built up in the body because of all the other things that we were just talking about.

speaker-2 (20:06.254)
Right. Right. Yeah, this is not just simply exercise or going to your local gym and and doing a boot camp class. those things are fine and good and and have their place, but they also can be very stress inducing as well. Mm-hmm. And the point here is how do we reduce our stress, right? Not in in cause more stress. So so if if it is something just very gentle, you know, if you like yoga, it's fine. If you like, you know

Tai chi or what you know, it doesn't really matter what the modality is, as long as it feels natural to you, something that you personally enjoy and comes easy. Again, don't don't do something that's crazy difficult that you know my body doesn't fit in those postures. Then don't do it. You know, find a movement modality that fits you more naturally. Yeah. riding your bike, roller skating, rollerblading. You know, like it doesn't matter. Just and doing it outside is wonderful if you can, right? So you get that fresh air.

But just find a way to move, move that energy. and again, it's just in in combination with some of these other pieces, it just enhances our feelings of wellness and peace. Mm-hmm.

speaker-0 (21:18.776)
I love that. So play.

speaker-1 (21:21.708)
Yes. As a society, we are too serious. We're you know, we're we're it it's everything is just so serious, so heavy, and we forget how to have fun. We're we're not intentional about doing something fun. How often are you laughing? Right? How often are you, you know, playing a board game with your partner or with your friends or you know, going to a

speaker-0 (21:26.647)
Say that again.

speaker-1 (21:50.926)
concert, that's just kind of just low key. You know, just doing something enjoyable. we we don't make enough time for that as a society because that's not seen as a priority. That's not seen as being productive, right? That's not seen in the doing space, you know, that's like, well, work before play. But do we ever get to play? Many times we just work, work, work, and play continues to get postponed. so we know it's even in relationships,

speaker-2 (22:18.03)
Yeah.

speaker-1 (22:21.026)
They don't have fun together. So every conversation tends to be heavy or dreaded. and they've forgotten how to actually enjoy the person that you're doing life with.

speaker-2 (22:34.986)
Or the play becomes performative. You know, in our in our social media world, if you are at the concert, it's about posting it on TikTok, posting it on Instagram, you know, you gotta take a hundred photos and all these kinds of things. And you can't just enjoy the moment. I mean, I don't know how many events we've been to where we just wanna be there and enjoy the artists and enjoy the music and everybody, you know, all you see is a sea of phones.

You know what I'm saying? And everybody's experiencing this live event through a two-dimensional medium of a screen. It's like, well, you could have just stayed home and streamed it. If that if that was the point, you know what I'm saying? Like to watch it through a screen, you could have done that at home. If you're going to be physically at the concert, be at the concert, right? That presence, be there. Enjoy that. Laugh with your friends, and you don't need to capture it on Instagram.

You know what I'm saying? Like just enjoy the moment, enjoy the experience, instead of it being a performative act.

speaker-0 (23:38.242)
I like how a lot of the seven keys really mix together. And the concept of play is really fascinating because when you when you said that like people don't laugh and that couples aren't having fun together, you guys, what is the point then? Like what is the point of life? Are you working to live or are you living to work? Pick which one you are because although you your life I mean you get one theoretically.

Depending on what you believe. But I just wanna, you know, highlight something because as Kiana mentioned, the foundational parts of our lives, even if it doesn't look like it's productive, productivity and the ability for our bodies to continue what they're meant to be doing here in this world, you need to rest.

You need to play, you need to laugh, because then what is there? You can't enjoy or build or do any of the other things in your life if you don't rest, you can't get up and work, if you don't have fun, you can't navigate life with ease when the stressful times come. Otherwise you're just gonna be a rocket ready to explode. Like that's just no. So play is not is not optional.

speaker-1 (25:05.346)
Yeah.

speaker-2 (25:05.654)
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, our society is plagued with these societal diseases, you know, high blood pressure, heart disease, hypertension, right? And all in the list goes on on all the things that we're overly medicated for. And most of it, as Kiana mentioned, is directly tied to our stress. Right. So we're not doing these simple things, but we'll go pop a pill or we'll take 10 pills.

You know, because when you when you start getting going down that medication road, you don't just get one. You get the one, and then you have the one to manage the symptoms of the first, and then you have the third to manage the symptoms of the second. You know what I'm saying? And then you got the one for your sleep because those other ones cause insomnia. And you know what I'm saying? And then just it's like this never ending battle. Yeah. And every day you have this series of pills you have to take to manage stress. Right.

When you could, there is an alternative path. I'm not saying don't take your medications, but there is an alternative path that you can explore, right? That naturally resets that nervous system, naturally brings down your anxiety, naturally brings down, you know, that your your shoulders are always up here. You know, everybody goes because they're so tense and so tight.

speaker-1 (26:23.032)
Yeah.

speaker-0 (26:26.114)
Hmm.

speaker-2 (26:27.65)
Because there just so much is on our minds, we don't actually just let it go. Mm-hmm. Just play. You know, just enjoy yourself. Just be. Just be. Just like ch like children. Children are so free. So free. Unencumbered by the concerns of the world.

speaker-0 (26:46.55)
you wonder why you have such a great time when you're going to hang out with, you know, your your friends' kids or your kids or your nieces or nephews or like i like it's just like no wonder your body looks forward to that. Yeah. Because it's like a breath of fresh air, just like watching life through a a child's eyes and then realizing, you know, I can do that too.

speaker-2 (27:07.928)
Yeah. Like they are just not concerned if their clothes aren't matching, if they're all wrinkled, if their shoes are untied, if they got snot coming down their nose. None of this bothers them. They just go and run and play and laugh and fall over and get back up and keep going, you know. and we teach them to be self-conscious. We teach them to be concerned about these things, you know, because it doesn't fit in, you know, society. You can't have a runny nose, you can't have

you know, wrinkled clothes, you can't have your shoes untied. And so they start to become more and more self-conscious and it's judgmental self-consciousness. Right. They have to be prim and proper and pressed all the time. and then we adopt that and bring that into our adult lives. So now we're never actually our authentic selves. We're a mask. We're just, you know, trying to replicate this ideal that society says you're supposed to be. Right. So we never actually give ourselves the time to take off

speaker-0 (27:43.256)
Totally, totally.

speaker-2 (28:06.444)
The mask, totally off the makeup, and just be our natural selves in the world and enjoy it. Mm-hmm. Now I'm not telling y'all to be walking around, you know, with a snotty nose, okay? Keep keep your nose clean. But but you understand what I mean, right? Like just we don't really get that time to just be and relax and not try to impress someone all the time.

speaker-1 (28:30.39)
Yeah, even if you invite a friend over, what was all the cleaning that you did before they came? And this has to look a certain way. And you know, and it's not even something that's enjoyable. So you don't want to have people over. It's easier to just do you. you know, and it just that that cycle just continues. So yeah, that's a really important one that does get undervalued in our society.

speaker-2 (28:54.734)
Yeah, 'cause when you're playing you're not concerned about it, you know. Yeah. Yeah, you're just doing the thing and then having having a good time about it, laughing at yourself and just you know.

speaker-0 (29:04.928)
Encourage it. Get messy. Yeah.

speaker-1 (29:07.722)
Exactly. Exactly. Exactly.

speaker-0 (29:10.08)
The next one is create. Let's break that one open.

speaker-1 (29:15.566)
So we are creative beings as well. If you think about our society, anything that's not nature was created by someone. You know, we think about all every invention, everything you see, someone had an idea for that. And we thrive in being able to allow those creative juices to flow in some way. It gives us a sense of purpose, it gives us a sense of meaning.

When you can see the result of something that you did. There's a dopamine that gets released, you know, the reward of seeing what you accomplished, what you created. And that can look a lot of different ways. It can be cooking. You know, you created a dish and you see the result of that and the satisfaction that comes from that. Andrew mentioned gardening.

You know, to know that you planted that seed and you you cultivated it and you're witnessing the result of that. For some people it's music. For even you, JoJo, podcasts. You know, you're creating podcast. That's a that's an outlet for you in that space. So it can look so many different ways, coloring, so many different options. But as a people, there's there's a a drive and fulfillment that we gain.

When we're able to create and be in that space, where again it's letting that guard down and allowing another side of you to come up.

speaker-2 (30:51.606)
Mm-hmm. Yeah. and I think sometimes this word can be a little intimidating for folks if they don't feel like they are naturally quote unquote creative. Yeah. If they can't draw or they don't write poetry or, you know, things like that. They think they're not creative. And I think we can expand our horizons a little bit on that, right? One person's chore can be another person's creative outlet. Right. So for one, cutting the grass is just a Saturday chore. But for another, it's his hobby.

It's how they express their creativity. You know, making sure they have the lines all perfect and their grass is, you know, beautiful and and they have all the right color and all of this kind of thing. For some, that's a creative outlet. It's not just a chore to them. Right? So don't diminish the things that you enjoy that you feel like you can just naturally express your creativity. Again, it it doesn't have to be drawing and poetry and all these kinds of things. It can be

Very simple, what others would say mundane tasks, but you get this, you know, sense of like she said accomplishment and expression, free freedom of expression. and so don't diminish the things that you do that others may see as chores. For you it might be your creative outlet, and that's okay.

speaker-1 (32:10.87)
Yeah. And I know you mentioned having some doctors and, you know, some of those on the podcast too. And that may on the surface feel a lot more left brain, a lot more analytical. And then they may feel like, well, I'm not that creative. But if you think about when you're solving health problems, you know, it takes a level of creativity to really explore and not just look at the obvious and dig deeper. So even that problem solving.

Aspect of things is also a form of being creative. So not to diminish just kind of your natural gifting as well. and if you don't feel like you have an outlet for creativity, that may be a part that you that is missing. And it may be worth it to go back to step two and reflect and you know, and really consider well, what what do I enjoy? What did I enjoy before that I'm just not doing anymore? Because I felt like I didn't have time also.

speaker-0 (33:08.216)
That's a really good point. Yeah. A lot of people will be like, well, I'm not creative. It's like, no, you are. You just gotta tap in and figure out what that looks like in your life. And I like that you brought up the doctor point because problem solving is creativity. And that's, you know, people people negate it as a well, it's not a drawing or a painting or making music. And it's like, okay, well, it doesn't need to be. You are your own individual and you can figure out what that looks like for you. Let's talk about community.

speaker-2 (33:35.98)
Yeah, so community just recognizes that we're social beings, we're social creatures. you know, again, we're we we're not in this world alone. we get so much of our feedback, fulfillment, our learning, our growth through other people. you know, like none of us would be here literally without at least one relationship, you know, with our with our mothers and with our fathers. that's the first kind of community.

that we enter into is our family unit. and then that extends and expands out to, you know, extended family members, community members, friends, you know, and things like that. And it's really that being in service to others and being around others that gives our life that sense of meaning and purpose and how we express ourselves. even in a lot of these doings that we're talking about, most of it is for the sake of other people.

You know, whether you're trying to impress them, whether you're trying to serve them, whether you're trying to sell something to them, whatever it is, right? It's still about the other. So now it's like, okay, well, how do we reclaim that relationship to be something that's more nourishing to us? and not again that I have to kind of impress, perform in front of you. Yeah. Yeah. So finding that community that aligns with who you are, again, that natural fit.

speaker-0 (34:51.082)
Yeah.

speaker-2 (34:59.642)
it can be around a common interest. It could be, you know, a spiritual community, it could be your online podcast community. It, you know, it doesn't matter what it is. It's just something where you feel again, you can express some of these other seven keys with them authentically. Mm-hmm. Right. I have my guard up in this space. I can be more free. I can play. I can move. I can be present. I can, you know what I'm saying? I can just

speaker-1 (35:29.9)
Relax.

Yeah, no, it's an excellent point. And I think most of us are aware that there is a loneliness epidemic happening. You know, we're more connected than we've ever been with social media. However, we're also more lonely than we've ever been. And just realizing that, okay, something is wrong with that. What about our lifestyle? What about our routines are perpetuating that reality?

You know, what what are you willing to do differently if you don't like the way that things are going? And a lot of people do find it difficult the older you get to make friends because everyone is so stuck in their, you know, routine and focused on their own lives and their own doings. Yeah. That they can't even respond to a text message. You have to wait a whole week. You have to schedule a phone call just to be able to talk to someone sometimes. And all of that can just be really daunting.

But again, it goes back to that intentionality. If there are friendships that you have, are we cultivating those? Or are we saying, Well, the phone works two ways and you know Guilty And and just waiting for them to be the one to reach out and then that pure friendship just ends up falling off because we didn't cultivate it. Mm-hmm.

speaker-2 (36:41.036)
Ha ha ha ha.

speaker-1 (36:51.8)
Right. So how intentional are we being about building our community, getting out of your comfort zone? You know, there's all kinds of things out there, all kinds of events and activities and even virtually as well. But are we seeking that? And if we're not, that may be part of the problem.

speaker-0 (37:10.296)
I wanna tie it back to the the fact that we're so much in the 2D screen. And community can be, you know, an online community, an Instagram, a Facebook, a whatever you are in, but that is gonna perpetuate that loneliness epidemic because there's not that connection. If you look around and you're just, you know, walking down the street, the amount of people who have their face in their phone and then there was a funny

I don't know if it was like a drawing or a sketch or a meme that someone sent me, but it was basically like if you put the people who are looking at their phones like this, just head down, hand phone in their hand, and put it back a hundred years ago, it's like, what what the heck are you doing? The world's out here. It's not in your hand, under your nose. And no wonder we're so

Disconnected from community. We're disconnected from people because we think connection or speaking to someone is a text. Yeah. It's not. You guys talking to someone is not texting someone. That is not talking. That is not texting. What what? Like talking and face-to-face, even like FaceTime is getting like in it's getting replaced. Or physical touch or face to face is getting replaced by FaceTime. That's not the same as like.

True connection. I understand that that is sometimes the only modality that we have, but are you replacing that constantly in your life and calling that community? What is your community that's outside of your phone screen, your computer screen, the four walls? Think bigger. Yeah. And think more, I don't know, old school.

speaker-1 (38:47.394)
Correct. Right.

speaker-1 (38:59.093)
Yeah.

speaker-2 (38:59.81)
Yeah. Let the old school be new school again. Yeah. I think, you know, and some of these tools can help facilitate, you know, connection and community. Definitely. You can still use the digital platform, but then help it be a means to an end of connecting in person. Right. So you can use the two D to help enhance the three D.

speaker-0 (39:01.9)
Yeah, for real.

speaker-0 (39:22.296)
So that's all it should be.

speaker-2 (39:23.574)
Right, right. So if you have an online community, schedule a meetup. You know, schedule a time for us to get together. Let's go to a coffee shop. Let's go to a park. Let's, you know, meet at so and so's house. Let's travel together. You know, one of my college classmates, she would she used to play World of Warcraft. If you guys remember that game. And and she would skip class and everything to play this game. But she had built a community of friends through

The video game and then they would literally meet each other in person. They travel from wherever they were in the country and meet up. You know, now they probably would then still play the game, but hey, at least they were doing it in the same room and not, you know, thousand miles away. So you can still use the digital mediums to create community in person as well.

speaker-0 (40:16.726)
Hundred percent.

speaker-1 (40:17.986)
Yeah, I have a we have a brother-in-law where he literally has friends all over the country. And it's people from long ago, maybe even elementary school or middle school that he's maintained a connection with. So if he goes to that city, he's gonna be contacting them and say, Hey, let's get together. and just that intentionality for going to a concert, he'll go to concerts and, you know, see the same artist multiple times in different cities.

Just because I have a friend there. Right. So it's how intentional are we willing to be? And like I said before, are we just allowing the excuses to keep us to hold us back? Yeah.

speaker-0 (41:00.718)
So that's how we regulate individually. But let's zoom in a little bit more on co-regulation and partnership and what that really looks like inside a duo. Yeah. And I love that I'm speaking with a duo. And maybe there's some things that you want to share that have worked for you guys, but what happens when two dysregulated people are trying to communicate whether that's about money or maybe there's something deeper that's going on?

But how how do you take this individual work and really bring it into a partnership?

speaker-2 (41:36.598)
Yeah. Well you made a key word you said a key word right there, partnership. Not everyone who's in a relationship have proactively said we want a partnership.

speaker-0 (41:47.702)
wait, first let's unpack that.

speaker-2 (41:51.31)
Yeah. So a lot of clients that we work with, they're actually not partners. They're two individuals trying to play out what they think marriage looks like. So they may have fallen in love or they may have had some attraction or things like that. And that's what brought them together. But they weren't intentional about designing what should our lives look like.

Together as a true partnership. It's I have my way, you have your way, and we're just playing tug of war to see who will win out in any given situation. Whose perspective is going to win today? And so there's a lot of competition that ends up playing itself out in marriages. So we're not partners, we're actually adversaries. And I have to fight you to get my way.

Or to get you to see it my way. Mm-hmm. So we actually want to help them move towards a partnership. Mm-hmm. Right. Where we are on the same team. We're working towards the same goal. If I win, we win because it's a team effort. We're in this together. And one person doesn't have to be diminished in order for another person to shine. We are trying to shine together. Right.

So it would be a false assumption to think every marriage is a partnership. They're not. That takes intentionality if you want to operate as a partnership.

speaker-0 (43:24.494)
Mm-hmm.

speaker-0 (43:29.9)
That's obviously so clear when you say it. But I think people say partner or instead of like boyfriend or yes wife or husband nowadays. And and just that intentionality of what that actually looks like. Cause you're right. There's so many relationships that I see that it's like, you guys are together, sure. But

Are you guys on the same team? Do you support each other? Like, kind of not irregardless, but in in the right ways. Are you working toward a common goal? And is it like me against you? And then one person wins, therefore the relationship loses. Like, what what is the point? Because true partnership, as you're saying, that I want to double click on is when.

There's there's not the ego mentality of like I need to be right or that it's like what's the best outcome for this relationship to unfold and move towards whatever that goal is? And that might be one person in their head being like, Well, that means I'm losing. No. Is it that you're losing, is your ego taking a hit, or are you working towards the common goal? So thank you for clarifying what actually it means to be in partnership intentionally. Uh-huh.

And then when you do have that partnership, how do you deal with dysregulation together? Because one person's, you know, could be stressed out and that might bring the other person into a stress mode or there might, whatever that is, money, finances, etc. So how do you come together in that?

speaker-1 (45:11.466)
Yeah. So so I'm glad we did kind of clarify that the partnership is what helps in the co-regulation. Because otherwise, again, we're competing for whose feelings are more important. That if one person is experiencing more stress, if we're not in a partnership, it'll be like, Well, I was stressed yesterday and you didn't do anything. You know, we start getting into that competing and not actually like honoring the feelings that are being presented. So I'm glad we clarified that.

So it really is understanding yourself and understanding your partner. What are those signs that cause you to feel stressed? What are those triggers that cause you to feel stressed? Does your partner know what those things are? Have you talked about what helps you in those moments? Are you someone that needs the quiet to process your thoughts? And in that, that helps you to regulate. And if your partner can keep the kids quiet,

While you take 20 minutes just to journal or just to to have a minute, do we have an understanding that that's what we need to function? Right? Do we have an understanding that, no, actually, I need to verbally process? So if you can just, you know, non-judgmentally listen and just be supportive, just you being there and not looking at your phone while I'm talking to you, that helps me to co-regulate because I feel hurt.

speaker-0 (46:39.838)
Yeah.

speaker-1 (46:40.258)
Right. You know, so some of those things that we need to understand ourselves, understand our partner and communicate what we need. Yeah. Not assume that they should know and then be upset with them when they don't.

speaker-0 (46:53.071)
Your partner's not gonna read your mind. No. Sorry. But maybe after a while, like they start to pick up on the clues and the cues, but it's not just like it's written on your forehead. No.

speaker-2 (47:05.108)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, and you know, that sounds simple and it sounds easy and it sounds like, you know, well duh, but you just don't even realize how easy it is to slip into that assumption that they should know. Right. And so it is something that we have to constantly remind ourselves that our partners are not in our in our heads.

In our heads, we have so much context and background and trauma and experience and feelings that our partners just don't know. You know what I'm saying? So they don't know the weight you are applying to this ask that I didn't meet. You know, so now it's not that I just didn't, you know, put the food out when you asked me to. It's you didn't put the food out means you don't care about my needs.

See, that's a different, that's a different conversation than simply saying, I asked you to put the food out, you didn't do it, you know, what happened, and I can explain why or what happened, and then we get over it. It becomes, I'm interpreting that as you don't care about me, you don't care about my needs, you never do what I ask you to do. You see what I mean? It it becomes bigger. It becomes much bigger because of all the context and weight that we've applied to this experience.

speaker-1 (48:16.95)
It's all about you.

speaker-2 (48:27.266)
And so this is where Kiana is saying, like you have to know yourself. And then we have to proactively learn our partners, learn what is meaningful to them. How do they interpret care? Yeah. You know, in love. because it does look differently for each person. We're not just talking about the love languages, quote unquote. We're talking about even deeper. What are my expectations? how are those expectations formed? You know.

Do they actually match this dynamic or not? Right. So the love languages is cool, and I'm not I'm not poo-pooing them in any way, but it it goes deeper than just simply a word of affirmation or physical touch. Right? It goes to our interpretations of that, our past experiences of those things. Right. and and what traumas have we experienced in our lives that either make that

nourishing or intimidating. Yeah. So it it can get it can get really deep really quickly. but this is where that intentionality comes in on the front end as you're planning to be with someone, if you want to be with someone long term, having these meaningful conversations when you do have that downtime, right? That builds that emotional connection when you can be vulnerable with another person and share some of your aspirations, some of your fears, some of your apprehensions.

You know, in a safe space where you both are mutually sharing and and learning, right? And nourishing one another.

speaker-1 (50:01.506)
One thing I'll add, JoJo, as well, I think we don't talk about it enough, is how do we reconcile? And that's a part of co-regulation as well. That what do you need after there's been maybe a heated discussion? What do you need to be okay? Do you even know that? Right. Many times we haven't done the reflection, done the sitting in the stillness to really realize what actually helps me feel safe.

Emotionally. What helps me feel okay? Where this continues to feel like a partnership. And we we've had those conversations. And for me, if we don't hug, if there's not some sort of touch after we've had an argument, I'm not okay. And I will not be okay. So but I've had to communicate that. He's had to learn me so that in those moments we can initiate that and just have that closure.

speaker-2 (50:57.048)
Mm-hmm.

speaker-1 (50:58.144)
You know, so things like that are just really important. Otherwise the wounds stay open and we don't actually heal and that partner doesn't feel safe. Yeah.

speaker-2 (51:07.95)
And that goes back to how we show up in the world, right? She's definitely more on the you know right brain side of things, you know, the feeling and sensing side, and I'm more on the analytical side. So we can resolve a conflict, and as long as we got to the right solution, I'm good. Right? Like the the you know, the equation is now balanced out, so I'm okay. But for her, that physical distance.

still means emotional distance. So that's why the hug is important or the touch, because it closes the gap, not just physically, but emotionally. Mm-hmm. It, you know, it creates that sense of closure. Right. Where for me, I that's it's not my go-to. So I'm not going to automatically just hug and kiss right after an argument. so again, these smaller nuances is what you learn about your partner over time.

speaker-0 (51:39.222)
Mm-hmm.

speaker-2 (52:04.859)
And you have to be open to share these kinds of things with them and be vulnerable. Mm-hmm. or you can't grow closer together. Mm-hmm.

speaker-0 (52:15.864)
So that's how we can individually regulate our nervous system. If we are in partnership, regulate our nervous system or co-regulate. And even if even if you're in a partnership or you are single or you know, in a relationship, you want it to be a partnership, whatever that looks like, going through these seven keys to really understand yourself can really, really make a huge difference. So I encourage you to, you know, think about this.

really this week to in order to just keep yourself on a on a healthy sort of baseline rather than you know having all these like cortisol spikes and kind of just feeling like in the rat race. And I wanna ask you guys, are there any like micro practices that either couples or individuals can really practice this week? Either in the seven keys or just mindfully be intentional of or

Anything that you can sort of impart?

speaker-2 (53:17.932)
Yeah, I would say, you know, regardless of the seven keys, it's really about bringing more intentional awareness to your daily life. Right. So whether you're, like I said, doing chores around the house or you're at work or you're in the car, you're in the shower, wherever you are, making that an opportunity to be present, right? Maybe using that opportunity to reflect, to align your align your priorities with what you really want.

speaker-0 (53:40.227)
Beautiful.

speaker-2 (53:47.476)
Ask yourself that question. Is what I'm doing actually moving me towards the life I want to build?

speaker-0 (53:55.06)
Beautiful. I love that.

speaker-1 (53:57.92)
And and I would say check in with your body. Many times we we're not even aware that, wow, I'm hungry. I skipped a meal. I'm stressed.

speaker-0 (54:09.004)
I'm anxious because I haven't eaten today.

speaker-1 (54:11.374)
Right. We ha when's the last time I drank water? Right? Like there's just some simple things that you know, we have a headache, but we jump to medication rather than realizing, I haven't drank any water yet, or I haven't eaten, you know, in six hours. That's probably why. So just kind of being more intentional to check in with your body. Do you need to take a break? Do you need to take some deep breaths? Do you need something to nourish?

your body, to create more of that awareness as well.

speaker-0 (54:46.958)
Before I let you guys go, I wanna get messy real quick, mentally, emotionally, and spiritually. So mentally, what's one thought pattern that you had to interrupt in yourself before you could teach this kind of work to anyone else?

speaker-1 (55:01.902)
So for me, I would say the perfectionism is a big piece that it doesn't have to be perfect. I just have to do something. So not waiting for things to be perfect before acting, taking the first step, doing something, showing love towards myself to be able to make that forward progress. That was a mental piece I really had to get in check.

speaker-2 (55:32.654)
For me, I would say it's fighting that, you know, not good enough message that can hinder so much of us and so much of our progress, allowing that terror, that terror barrier to hold you back from pursuing what you really want. so that's a thought pattern that I had to really overcome and and using some of these seven keys is really where a lot of that deeper work happened. Mm-hmm.

speaker-0 (56:02.752)
Emotionally. What emotions do you think that most of your clients are avoiding?

speaker-1 (56:12.354)
A lot of people are avoiding so anxiety is is so high for for many of the clients that we work with. And they're avoiding the root of the anxiety. So what is causing that dis ease, which can lead to the disease, right? it's avoiding what is that action that I know or the conversation that I know I need to have.

Which is why I'm feeling anxious, but it's avoiding going there. And that's what I see is is a key part emotionally that's holding people back.

speaker-2 (56:54.798)
I would say disappointment. Everybody is is running from dis being disappointed, that feeling of being disappointed where your expectations are not met. you know, I think the reality is that's a part of life. You know. There's going to be things that go your way and there's going to be things that don't go your way. and regardless, we still have to find a way to be okay. You know? And so that building up that resilience and that grit.

and I think a lot of people are just afraid of disappointment and being let down, not knowing how to work through that experience. so whether that's individually or in a relationship, I think that's what they're really scared of. Mm-hmm.

speaker-0 (57:44.246)
And spiritually, when your own nervous system is dysregulated, what is your number one thing that brings you back to yourself?

speaker-1 (57:53.324)
My number one thing is taking a breath. Really being intentional. That helps me to slow down. It helps me to be more aware of how fast my heart is beating, why the head is pounding, why there's the pressure in the chest. Right? Just really slowing down and breath is a way that helps me to do that. Several breaths to be clear.

One one is not enough.

speaker-0 (58:24.952)
Breathing, not breathe.

speaker-1 (58:26.958)
Exactly.

speaker-2 (58:30.378)
for me it's it's really my stillness and meditation practice. that is something that I've adopted in my life for a long time now and it and it's still very helpful, beneficial just to kinda be still, and just allow myself to settle in the quiet space, disconnect from stimulus. and yeah, that's my that's my practice. Mm-hmm.

speaker-0 (59:01.176)
Well, you guys, thank you so much for joining me on Inside Out and where can people find you?

speaker-1 (59:07.79)
Yeah, so you can go directly to our website, souljourneyproject.com. Right there, you could sign up to be on our get our newsletters. We publish articles every month on topics just like this. we also have our journal right there on our website too. And you can book a consultation as well if you feel like, hey, I feel like I need help.

leaning more into these things. I don't really know where to start. It's not fully clicking. Can I get some assistance? And we would love to connect with you. It'd be a support on your journey.

speaker-2 (59:39.63)
Mm-hmm. Yeah. If social media is your thing, you can also reach us on Instagram or Facebook at Soul Journey Project.

speaker-0 (59:47.234)
And you guys, this will all be linked in the show notes. And you guys know where to find me at underscore insideout.podcast. If this resonated with you, I want you to take a minute, take a deep breath, and think about someone that you know needs to hear this, and then send it to them. And with that, you guys, have a great week. I'll see you guys all next Wednesday. Have a great week. Bye.