WTF Is Tarot & How Do We Use It with Dina Berrin

Before you click away because you think tarot is too "out there," stay with me.

In this episode of Inside OUT, Jojo sits down with Dina Berrin, an author, certified life coach, and intuitive guide who treats tarot as a language and a map of the human experience, not a party trick or a crystal ball. If you have never touched a deck in your life, this is your grounded, no judgment way in.

Dina breaks down what tarot actually is: a deck of 78 cards split into the minor arcana and the major arcana, full of symbolism that reflects the universal human story of love, fear, growth, endings, and new beginnings. You will learn how to read the colors and images on a card, how to look for patterns in a spread, and how tarot quietly moves you from asking "is he going to call me back" to asking "what am I learning" and "what am I avoiding."

Then Jojo puts Dina on the spot for a live reading, and what comes up is so specific it is a little scary. They get into the 2026 year card, personal year cards, numerology, and the one question underneath every question people ever bring to the deck: am I going to be okay?

If you are a skeptic, an overthinker, or someone who needs it to make logical sense before you let it in, this one is for you.

Let's Get MESy.

 Dina's book The Way Within: Igniting Your Intuition with Sacred Tools (on Amazon here)

Listener offer: 15% off a One Hour Personal Reading with Dina, regularly $270. The session focuses on your birth cards and personal numerology. Use code INSIDEOUT15 when booking. Valid for first time clients who book within 30 days of this episode airing. You can also ask Dina about her 90 minute "Understanding You" deep dive. Book here: https://dinaberrin.com/contact/

Find Dina Website: https://dinaberrin.com 

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/dinaberrin or @dinaberrin

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@dinaberrin5975 

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dina-perlmutter-berrin-cpcc-pcc-5b812022 

Divination Charm Set: https://dinaberrin.com/product/magical-divination-charm-set/

Thank you for listening! Don't forget to follow along on social media @_insideout.podcast, rate and review. And Join the MESy Mailing List for exclusive content, insights on what is coming up and more! 

Transcript

Welcome
To the Inside Out Podcast. I'm your host Jojo and this is where we will navigate the mess together. That is mental, emotional, and spiritual. Let's get messy.

speaker-0 (00:26.574)
Today I have Dina Barron with me. She's an author, a certified life coach, and an intuitive guide. And today, you guys, we're diving into tarot. Now, before you click away, because I'm sure some of you are thinking, well, that's a little too out there, or you know, you've never touched a deck in your life. Just hold on, stay with me for a second. Because here's why I had to have Dina on. She doesn't just treat tarot like fortune telling or a party trick.

She treats it like a language and a map of the human experience or a mirror that helps you reflect and ask the better questions that maybe you're not getting quiet enough to even ask yourself or to hear yourself. So today is going to be a grounded intro to tarot, what it actually is and how it can be a tool for self reflection and intuition. So Dina, thanks for joining me.

speaker-1 (01:16.92)
Thank you so much, Jojo. It's great to be here.

speaker-0 (01:19.736)
So can you just first and foremost tell me what Tarot is?

speaker-1 (01:25.026)
Yes. Well, at its core, Tarot is a deck. Now a traditional tarot deck has seventy-eight cards. So I'm gonna talk about it like we're talking about the traditional deck. So tarot is a deck of seventy-eight cards that has symbolic images on the cards that help us see ourselves more clearly. And these cards reflect the human experience, the universal human experience.

So they cover love and fear and uncertainty and growth and endings and beginnings and confidence and heartbreak and reinvention and intuition, all the things. And and that's why people often feel emotional when they work with certain cards or when certain cards come up, because people see themselves, they recognize themselves in the imagery and the story. I always say that tarot is the the storybook of our lives. And and I

I really look at Tarot as a h the human story map. It is like a map that we use for the human experience.

speaker-0 (02:34.338)
So I know a lot of people who look at tarot and be I had a tarot reading, or like you'll see the people in Union Square or Central Park just like giving free tarot readings and it's like almost like a predictory sort of what what should I do with this or is this relationship gonna work out or what business venture should I do or what should my career be? What's my purpose? Is tarot used like actually predictory? Like can you see things in tarot like that? Or is it is it something else?

speaker-1 (03:04.43)
Absolutely, I mean the tarot can be used in many ways. It's it's a tool. Just like like our phone is a tool, and our phone has many different things that you can do with it. People are like, well, I talk to I talk on my phone, right? That's one of the things you can do, but you can also text and you can also send email. Like there's a lot of different ways that you can use it. It's very versatile. I don't know if the phone is the exact best analogy, but I went with it because my phone is sitting right next to me on the table.

But but anyway, tarot is a tool that you can use in many ways. And one of the things people do use it for is prediction. And you certainly can make predictions with that. And I know people that have been very accurate in their predictions. And sometimes I use it in a predictory way as well. And I have systems for how I get the information that I do. But I also believe that it can be used to help bring subconscious thoughts.

emotions, patterns, and intuition to the surface. So most people already know more than they think they do. And Tarot simply gives everyone that uses the deck a symbolic language to access that information. So sometimes seeing something visually represented in a card helps people finally acknowledge what they've been feeling.

all along. I mean, because I think that a lot of times we feel things and what happens is earlier on in our lives, maybe because you know, it was just easier for our parents or our caregivers or whoever just to kind of move us along. It's like if we felt like, you know, like if your mom got you dressed in the morning and you didn't like your outfit, but you had to leave, your mom's like, get in the car. We're going to school kind of thing. It's like you're and and all day you're just like

God, I hate what I'm wearing, kind of thing. And now when we have that feeling, we're like, okay, this is coming off. I'm putting on something new because I don't want to walk around all day feeling uncomfortable in the clothes that I'm wearing. but what's happening is a lot of times we are very intuitive, especially when we are younger. And what happens is that the people that are around us either they listen and they encourage that, or they brush it aside and they say,

speaker-1 (05:29.378)
That makes no sense. That's not logical. So sometimes what we do is we brush aside our feelings because we can't assign logic to it in some way. Like I know that growing up we had a basement and the basement was dark, but we ha we kept like, you know, extra jars of tomato sauce down there. Like we kept that, you know, that's where we had extra laundry detergent. So sometimes you needed to go downstairs and get, you know, something from the basement, but I just

The energy of the basement just felt very different than the energy of the rest of the house. And when it was my turn to go down there, I'm like, I gotta like kind of generate all my courage up so I can go downstairs and, you know, get that jar of tomato sauce or whatever it is. And these are all feelings that we have, but we just tell ourselves, ignore it, brush it aside. It doesn't make sense. And so as we get older and our

Our emotions get bigger and the issues that we are dealing with become more varied, we kind of default into that same action, like, it's just a feeling that I'm having, but logically, it doesn't make sense. So this is why it sometimes feels weird to trust a deck of cards, but what it's doing is it's n it is giving information. But sometimes it is what and what I look at as the tarot is I want to have a conversation.

about this. Like I want to talk about what do you see in the cards? What colors jumped out at you? What was the first image that you saw when you looked at, you know, the picture? Because a lot of these cards have a lot of different things going on in them. So just to give you a very long answer, you can use it for prediction, but I feel as though there's a lot of other ways for you to get real information from your intuition in the cards.

speaker-0 (07:26.946)
So that gives me like a kind of a two-parter question because you're talking a lot about symbolism. And those who who don't know tarot or haven't really seen a deck, I there's so many different decks out there, but you're talking about the traditional deck. Can you talk about the symbolism and then also speak to how people can use it? Because if there are so many different ways, like what are some of the ways that someone can use it? And is it better to use it on your own, or is it better to go like through someone, like a, you know, a professionalist of like as yourself or

Like what is what is this and how do we like hold on to it and really like unpack it?

speaker-1 (08:03.906)
So first of all, I I'll address the I I have like a million answers to give you. So the first thing I want to address is the idea of symbolism. So each of the cards, as I mentioned, has a picture. And the card that I the deck that I use mostly when I do readings with clients is the universal weight deck. And the the traditional deck deck is either the rider weight or the weight or some version of the weight deck. So my universal weight deck is a traditional deck.

maybe with a little bit of different color. but the images are very similar. And so when I talk about symbolism, like maybe one of the cards has a tree in it. Maybe there's a bird. Maybe there is you know a fountain and there's a lot of water. Maybe there are rocks in the water. Maybe somebody's wearing a blindfold. So all of these things. So for example, if you were to notice like in one of the cards

There are rocks in the water. And water to me is emotional. And when you look at the water and you see rocks in it, like rocks to me are like, those are rocks that I can see. Maybe there are rocks also in this water that I can't see. So then I begin to wonder like, is it safe for me to swim in this water? So then what I might interpret that as meaning is that emotionally things are rocky.

right now and maybe you're feeling a little bit emotional or concerned or fearful of what it might look like to get a little bit more, you know, into the mix of what's really happening in your life. So I what well so I I just kind of pull an image and I'm like, well, here's what I see. Or I see a tree. A tree is very rooted. It's grounded into the earth. So are you feeling rooted? Are you feeling strong? You know, did you notice the bird?

The bird to me can represent freedom. It can represent seeing things from a different perspective because the bird is high and we are down here on the ground. So it really so when I was talking about symbolism, the first thing I would want to know is like, was there something in the picture that caught your eye first? The second thing I'd like to know is was there a color? Because a lot of the cards have color in them and the colors have a lot of meaning.

speaker-1 (10:30.582)
So for example, if someone's like, well, I just saw so much yellow. Well, yellow to me is about clarity. It's about focus. It's about intention. It's about listening. So then I might say, you know, well, what are you focused on right now? What do you have like a a clear goal or intention in mind? Kind of thing. So it's like I use wherever, you know, the eyes of the the reader, of the readee, I I I want to have a conversation. So I can tell you what I see, but I also want to know

where you have been drawn so I can then address some of those issues. Or for example, did you notice the person wearing the blindfold?

speaker-0 (11:10.446)
Mm, okay.

speaker-1 (11:12.066)
Where what don't you want to see? Where are you, you know, I feel like that to me, like when somebody wears a blindfold, it's kind of like the ostrich that puts his head in the sand. I was like, hmm does that does that metaphor, you know, ring true for you in any way? Like what I and once again, it's no judgment. I'm just trying to get it an idea of where you are and how this image, how this symbol is showing up for you in your life.

Mm. And then we kind of, you know, move along from there. So that is what I'm talking about with symbolism. But there's a lot of ways for you to use tarot for self reflection as well.

speaker-0 (11:53.678)
Hi.

speaker-1 (11:56.598)
So, if you'd like for me to share a few ways that you can use tarot for self-reflection, I'm happy to do that as well.

speaker-0 (12:03.234)
Yes. Let's go that direction.

speaker-1 (12:05.366)
Okay, okay, so I'll give you I'll give you a few here. So the first thing that I also look at, so usually when you go for a reading, the reader will put out, I don't know, six, eight, twelve cards to start, just to kind of get a foundational idea of where you are. And the first thing that I do when I start looking at someone's cards is I start looking at patterns. I'm looking for patterns. So for example

Is there a color that keeps coming up? Like I'm seeing it again. Like, is there a lot of yellow in all of the cards that are there? Or are there a bunch of number four cards? Or do I see a lot of nature scenes? Or like so what I'm the first thing that I do when I put out the cards, I don't immediately start, you know, from the jump talking. The first thing I want to do is I just want to look and see what is here. And a traditional tarot deck, as I mentioned, has 78 cards.

And the cards are split into two types of cards. the first set, which I'll talk about, are called the minor arcana. Minor being small, arcana meaning secrets. Now we know that in normal car decks we have four suits. Usually a normal car deck has diamonds, hearts, clubs, and spades. Now my tarot deck in the minor arcana, I also

have four suits and they are constructed very similarly to a regular card deck. There's an ace through a ten and then there's a court. My court has four cards, a traditional terror of a traditional card deck has three in their court, but similar enough. An ace through a ten, my deck has a paganite, a king and a queen. So those are those four suits, mine are pentacles, swords, wands, and cups. And another thing that I look for is in patterns,

Are there a lot of one suit showing up? And if so, each of those suits has an element that it is associated with and also an energy that comes with it. in addition to those four suits, I have an additional 22 cards in my deck, and those are called the major arcana. So we have the minor arcana, the little secrets, we have the major arcana, the big secrets.

speaker-1 (14:33.558)
And those 22 cards consist of all the title cards. That's the fool, that's the emperor, the magician, that's the dreaded death card, the devil is in there. All of the cards that are titles are in these 22 major arcana cards. So once again, I look for patterns. Are there many major arcana cards in your spread?

What are those cards? Because some of the major arcana cards are much more heavy hitting than others. So I want to see what's come up, what and and I also want to see what is not here. So y by you know, trying to figure out like what's important, well, maybe the fact that, you know, there is no there's no pentacles. Pentacles are the element of earth, and that's about grounding yourself.

So maybe you're running around with, you know, a million ideas in your head and you're not grounded anywhere because there are there is no earth. There nothing is, you know, kind of bringing you down to earth at this time. So one of so as I mentioned, how can we use this for self-reflection? The first thing I do is noticing the patterns. What is here, what is not here. And if you want, I can give you I'll give you one more because I feel like I'm giving you a lot of information.

so Tarot helps you ask better questions. So I know that a lot of times, especially I I mean, I've done a lot of readings, I still do a lot of readings, and there are certain questions that are, you know, some of our as I would call our greatest hits, you know, you know, is he gonna call me back? Like, are we gonna get back together again?

What's going to happen? You know, what's gonna happen with my job? What's gonna happen in this relationship? Should I stay? Will this work? And and and I I I feel as though those are those are questions that are important. But what happens over time when you start working with the cards for self reflection is that we go from asking questions like that to asking questions like, what am I learning?

speaker-0 (16:53.848)
Here.

speaker-1 (16:55.154)
Or what am I avoiding? As in the blindfold. What needs my attention right now? Or what truth already knows that it wants to be acknowledged? So it's it's funny, my original tarot teacher taught me that when people come to you for readings, they will ask you a million questions, which is true. But in truth, there is really only one question.

question. And that one question is, Am I going to be okay?

speaker-0 (17:31.34)
A minute.

speaker-1 (17:32.514)
Because that's all that people that that's why they come to you for a reading, that's why they're seeking answers from the deck, whether it be predictory or for self-reflection, that is really the most important thing. And I feel as though if you are willing to invest the time and get to know the deck, there are a lot of ways for you to get those kind of answers.

speaker-0 (17:56.594)
Wow. Thank you for unpacking all of that. And like the symbolism and the colors and the different suits and how they all work together in the major arcana and the minor arcana, that's so fascinating because I think a lot of people just look at tarot and they're like, How does anyone read this? I mean, be like, do they just pull one card? What is a spread? How do I know what order to put them in? So when you talk about spread, what does that look like? And

Like, is it a one card situation? Or I mean you said it was six cards, but like how do you read six cards? Like what is what is that like if someone wants to start, you know, like learning more about this?

speaker-1 (18:35.16)
Sure, great question. And what I love to say when I'm teaching and when I'm talking, even with somebody in a reading, the rules are, there are no rules. So whatever you feel comfortable with is the best way for you to start. Like I I I do a lot of like events, I do a lot of like big corporate parties. And what happens at these events is they want me to do short readings for

A lot of people. So that means usually it's one card readings. And I can get a tremendous amount of information. Like I squeeze that orange, I like wring that towel out. I make sure that I get every drop of information out of there. And also, sometimes once again, like usually if somebody were to come for a like a a one hour session with me, they usually come with questions and once again we all

It all boils down to that one question, am I going to be okay? But I do want to hit on, you know, is it work? Is it relationship? Is it family? Is it health? Like, what is it that you want information on? But a lot of times when I do it for shorter readings and at events, there is no time for, what is your question or what theme would you like? Usually what I do is I shuffle the cards and then I ask the person who I'm gonna be giving the reading to, tell me when to stop shuffling. And when I stop shuffling,

That's the card that I pull. So like they are kind, they're helping me pick the card, so to speak. But it really depends. I would say when you are starting, fewer cards is easier because it's like if you were just learning to speak a language, is it better for you to have 10 people on the conversation and everybody firing information at you all at once? Or is it better for you to like sit with your

you know, with your teacher or your tutor or, you know, your little YouTube video or something like that, and learn it just a little bit at a time. So I mean, once again, there are some phenomenal books out there. There are amazing videos and I mean I have a YouTube channel with all of the the cards on it also. So if you want to know what I think of the cards, you can just go there. But I feel that what you want to do is you want to be comfortable with the deck before you create a TikTok channel and start doing readings for the world.

speaker-1 (20:59.95)
So it's it's really important that you form a relationship. And once again, yes, the the original deck that I learned on is and what it currently is a very traditional deck, but there are thousands of decks out there now. And it's funny, like I have a good friend of mine who's also a a very experienced and and and seasoned reader, and her birthday happens to be

October thirty first. So she is a Halloween baby, and her favorite deck that she loves to read with is the Halloween Tarot. Now, the Halloween tarot, instead of having pentacles, wands, cups, and swords, they have bats, goblins, I mean they like the four suits are like I have literally no idea.

What is happening in that I w when we w we sit together and she's Let me get out my deck, and I'm like, girl, I cannot read that deck. I'm like, I don't know what's going on here. I will let you take over. But it's so you need to find a deck that you're comfortable with and you need to spend some time like really looking at the cards and and and getting to know them. Like this is why what I do and I mean, I literally still do this to this day is I pull a tarot card and

Every morning and and what I do is I write in my journal about it. So like what's going on with me? How does this relate to or like what came up for me when this card came up? And then sometimes what I do is I'll I'll take a picture of it and then before I go to sleep at night, I'll sometimes cause I'll just like I won't remember I'm like, what was the card I pulled today? And then I'm like, I've got a picture of it. And I'll go back and I'll look at the picture and I'll be like, was there anything else?

that I didn't know earlier that I now am aware of and this card kind of like helped me see it in a in a new way with like a new perspective in some way. So there's a lot of different ways and it doesn't have to just be, you know, for prediction, as I mentioned.

speaker-0 (23:14.552)
So I wanna put you on the spot for a second. Could you be willing to pick a card for me and we can talk about it, kind of give people a little bit of an idea? Okay.

speaker-1 (23:17.326)
Let's do it.

speaker-1 (23:26.606)
Sure. I certainly can. Okay. And wouldn't you know it? I just had my deck right here next to me. Okay. So, okay, so I and once again, this is my my universal weight deck. It is a 78 card deck with the structure of which I told you. And so what I'm gonna do is I'm gonna add an extra little wrinkle to our

to our reading here as I mentioned to you. So I'm shuffling the cards and I didn't place anything anywhere, but I'm I'm I'm showing you the cards. You can see them. And the first thing I'm going to ask you to do is for you to tell me when to stop shuffling the cards. Okay. Now what I want you to do is I want you to pick a number between one and ten, the first number that comes to you.

speaker-0 (24:20.888)
Ten.

speaker-1 (24:21.846)
Ten. All right. So now what I'm gonna do is I'm gonna count down to the tenth card. So that's the one card we're gonna read. The tenth card. So one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine. And this is the n wow. look at this. my god! So she we pulled the ten of cups, which is actually also a card.

speaker-0 (24:39.926)
I'm nervous.

speaker-1 (24:51.674)
And so first what I wanna do is I wanna talk to you about the number ten. Because interestingly, we are currently I hope you don't mind that I'm now gonna throw in some numerology because how my brain works. It's like numbers, cards, it all works together. So twenty twenty six, if we add the numbers of two, zero, two, six together, we get the number ten.

speaker-0 (25:06.746)
my gosh, do it all.

speaker-1 (25:22.442)
Now, so what we are in right now in 2026 is we are in a number ten year. And so each of the each of the years has a tarot card that is assigned to it. And I don't know if you can see me furiously looking through my deck, but the card that is number ten is the wheel of fortune. So here's the energy of this year.

So, what I first want to do, I'm gonna give you the full reading. So, the full reading is that we are currently in an energy. So, the wheel of fortune is first of all, it's a very fortuitous card. I feel as though it it is but it's also about the ups and downs of life. So the wheel of fortune shows a wheel, and in life, like the clock, the wheel never stops moving. So life is always moving forward, things are always happening, and

I look at our lives as like a big book. And the book of our life is filled with many, many chapters. Some of our chapters are long, like our childhood. Some of our chapters are short, like our first job. But at any time, we are in a chapter. And when the wheel of fortune shows up, I feel as though I don't and and I do happen to know that you recently moved and I know that it wasn't

It wasn't something that suddenly came upon you. You had been looking to move for a little bit of time. But it's interesting because the Wheel of Fortune says it's like everything happens in its own time. So like I don't know if you've ever looked for an apartment or applied for jobs or like you've really wanted to make some sort of change in your life. And it just seemed like everywhere you went.

Doors were being closed in you at your face and opportunities like you just felt like you were at a standstill, like things were just not moving. And then you're like, you know what? I pushed and I pushed, it's not gonna work. So then you just say, All right, maybe not now. And what happens is when you take your focus off of that thing that you're like, I have to have this thing, all of a sudden the wheel shifts. And then wait a minute, I just got a job offer.

speaker-0 (27:43.044)
wait a minute.

speaker-1 (27:43.922)
And I so this is what happens. So the Wheel of Fortune is about cycles and waiting for the right time. And the Wheel of Fortune year is a year when you may suddenly be thrust into the spotlight. And this is something that, you know, I feel like everybody says has this, you know, idea that like some people have what we call overnight success. Yeah, only you know, this person only took ten years to have overnight success, you know, kind of thing.

So sometimes what happens is we work and we work, you know, behind the scenes and people aren't seeing it. And then all of a sudden, we get our moment and we step up. So, first of all, I want you to know that we are in a wheel of fortune year. You pick the number 10. 10 is about, you know, I asked you for a number between one and ten. Ten is the end of a cycle. So I feel as though something has ended and something new is beginning. So

speaker-0 (28:40.942)
Ask you something really quickly, 'cause I keep hearing we're in a one year. And I'm not trying to challenge you or anything, but is a ten the same as a one? Because Euro and like numero I'm confused by that.

speaker-1 (28:46.861)
No.

Right, because we're talking about tarot right now, but in numerology, there is no ten. We are in a one universal year numerologically. But our tarot card of the year, because I mean if if the number like I have twenty two, actually it goes up to twenty one, with the major arcana cards. So if whatever year we are in adds up to anything from twenty I mean, even twenty two or below

I keep that number. If the number added up to like twenty-three or above, I would then reduce that number. So for example, if exactly, so it was twenty-three, it would become a five kind of thing. But because we are in 2026 and that number equals 10, the tarot card number of the year is the number 10 and it is the wheel of fortune. We are also in a universal year one in the world of numerology, which is about new beginnings, fresh starts.

Clean slates. So it's about launching and you know, just to add a little bit more fuel to the fire, we are in a fire horse year. So think about how quickly fire moves. And and imagine the energy of a horse in a barn without any saddle or rope or anything on him, and somebody left the barn door open.

And all of a sudden, exactly, the horse is like, wait a minute. So do you think that that horse would kind of like gently walk to the door or do you think that he would fly out of there like a bullet?

speaker-0 (30:27.723)
The latter.

speaker-1 (30:29.166)
So this is the energy of this year. So we are in a the wheel is about movement. The one is about new beginnings and fresh starts. And the fire horse is all about taking action. So now that we have that established, let's read your card. So and so the Ten of Cups, Ten of Cups is about fulfillment in the realm of the heart.

And if you and and for those of you that are listening on the podcast, the the ten of cups has a beautiful rainbow. It's got ten cups that are, you know, in the rainbow. And underneath it, we have a man and a woman with their arms around each other and two children playing closely nearby. And to me, this is fulfillment in the realm of relationship. So I would say that in your relationship and one thing that I really like about the Ten of Cups, if you see the man's arm.

It is around the waist of the woman. It is not kind of like over her shoulder kind of like I own you kind of thing. It's kind of around her waist saying, We're partners. And that is something that I really like. So I feel as though you are moving into a new realm in your relationship. A and there's fulfillment, there's happiness, and there's contentment because you feel as though you found yourself a partner.

speaker-0 (31:55.075)
Hmm.

speaker-1 (31:57.93)
So I can add to that a little bit if you want.

speaker-0 (32:05.762)
Sure.

speaker-1 (32:07.15)
So when I shuffled the carts, you told me when to stop shuffling. Yes. And when I stopped shuffling, there was a card that was at the bottom of our deck. And what I look at at the bottom of the deck, I look to see what is here, but what is hidden. And what's here is the strength card. And so the strength card is the astrological sign of Leo. So I'm going to get timing on this. So I'm saying.

this summer. So the the strength card to me is actually about having like the strength, the strength to set boundaries, the strength to draw lines in the sand. And so in this card, once again, there is an image, and the image that we see is of a lion and of a woman who looks quite angelic. She's got a

an infinity symbol over her head, she's dressed in white with flowers all around her. And so I'm just gonna call her an angelic figure right now for our intents and purposes. But so on one end of the spectrum we have Leo the lion. And on the other end of the spectrum we have this wonderful, kind, gentle woman. And I feel as though, Jojo, sometimes in your life you can be that kind, gentle, loving, generous, compassionate woman.

And sometimes when you feel as though you've given and you've given and you've given, and a lot of people in your life maybe have taken, you become that lion. And that lion can, you know, can roar and lash out, and he'll eat you for lunch if he's angry, kind of thing. And so I feel as though sometimes in your life you're the angel, and sometimes you're the lion. And you go back and forth between the angel and the lion, and the angel and the lion, and honestly,

It can be exhausting. Can you relate?

speaker-0 (34:03.256)
Hmm.

You know, it's really interesting because you don't know much about me at all. And we haven't talked about any of this. Like this was a very on the fly like moment. So maybe some of you skeptics out there are being like, Well, did they talk about this? Like, is this no? This is all kind of wild and just it and I wanted to do this to show how to really dive in because she's getting messages that that are so accurate, it's kind of scary.

And also beautiful because that's the point of tarot. Like that's why we utilize this medium and wanted to break this open for everyone that didn't know about it or that don't know about it, so that there can be just more clarity or more again self-reflection. Like, wow, you are so right. Like I do go into

speaker-1 (34:53.846)
In

speaker-0 (35:01.612)
I mean, I call it angel devil mode, but you're right. It's more just like, like that roar. Like, cause I do that all the time. It's so funny. My mom is probably listening to this being like, she does, she'll growl. Like I do it. She's like, you gotta stop that. And it's but it's yeah, I I totally identify with over giving and getting upset and like, yes, I am giving, giving, giving. And then there's also the like, okay, like that. That's my roar. Yeah.

speaker-1 (35:29.794)
And that's interesting because the message, like so if that card were to come up, which obviously it did here, the what I would say to you is that if you want to keep doing what you're doing and keep getting what you've been getting, and it's okay with you, then then keep operating like this. But if you want things to change, what you're going to need to do is find a middle point in between.

one end of the spectrum, which is the angel, and the other end, which is the lion. You need to be the iron fist in the velvet glove. You need to find a way to be more firm and clear so you can take care of you. And that is what strength is. It's having the strength to speak up and say the things that you need in order to serve you.

speaker-0 (36:27.342)
So you were saying because the strength card in this was at the bottom of the deck, this is what's hidden.

speaker-1 (36:33.612)
It's here in the reading, but it's just hidden. So I think that you have rel like things are going well for you. And the thing is that at the same time, both things can be true. Like you can have a happy relationship situation, but there can be other areas of your life or even in this relationship where you feel as though you are doing a lot of the flexibility and the running. And if you want to

move to a place where there's more balance and you feel as though you are standing on a stronger foundation, one that you can build your business and, you know, what's next for you, you will need to become what the strength card is saying.

speaker-0 (37:20.898)
I love that. Amazing. Thank you for for doing that. That's really great. So you talked about the the year card. Do we each individually have a card?

speaker-1 (37:35.704)
We do.

We do. Okay. So, and once again, this is where we we do a little bit of numerology. So for example, as I mentioned, I my my I have twenty two major arcana cards. So the personal year card is always based on a number between w zero and twenty two.

so what I'm looking for is so I happen to know your birth date. You shared that with me. And so what I did is I added the digits of your birth date. So for example, if we were talking about January first, so if somebody's birthday, it doesn't matter what year, because we're gonna still do it for twenty twenty-six. So what I'm looking to do is get your energy of this year. So I'm just gonna do this for the number one.

You know, January 1st just to make it easy for everybody. So we're gonna add one plus one plus two plus zero plus two plus six. And interestingly, that all those numbers together equal the number twelve. And your numbers together add up to the number twelve as well.

speaker-0 (38:55.924)
Jojo.

speaker-1 (39:01.782)
So that was actually completely random and unexpected. But anyway, so you your personal year card. So the the the number twelve card in the tarot decks major arcana is called the Hanged Man. and so and the Hanged Man, I know I mean I just want you to know there are no bad cards in the deck.

I feel as though every card has an upside and a downside, and there's something to be learned from everything. So the and and what the hangman is doing is he's kind of hanging in suspension. He is waiting for for what's to come next. So so if you'd like for me to tell you a little bit about what it means to have a hangman as a personal year card, so

The hangman and Jojo, this is your this is the energy that you're working with this year. This is in addition to, you know, just the reading that I did for you. So a hangman

speaker-0 (40:04.718)
Yeah.

speaker-1 (40:07.32)
We're going deep here. This is what happens. I'm not doing anything predictive. I'm just using the cards to play with. I know. And get, you know, just just to do a little digging around and and and feeling and and you let me know if you're feeling this. So this year is a year of pause. It is not a full steam ahead year. It's a year of perspective shifts. It's a year of surrender. And it's a year of big internal change. Whether you planned for it.

speaker-0 (40:08.974)
But we know.

speaker-1 (40:37.526)
or not. So most people don't always enter this year super excited about it because the hangman is not super fast energy. It's not about pushing harder and reinvent your whole life by next week kind of thing. It's more about like sit down for a second and something important is trying to show itself to you. And you just sit down for a second so it can be seen.

speaker-0 (41:01.806)
Mm-hmm.

speaker-0 (41:05.655)
Wow.

speaker-1 (41:06.432)
So this is a year where people are often slowed down in ways that they did not expect. So some examples of that might be that plans may stall, timelines may change, certainty may disappear, and things that used to work suddenly don't. So people often feel suspended here. They are in between.

Who they have been and who they are becoming. And it can feel frustrating at first, especially for people who are action oriented or used to solving everything. So the hangman, I want you to know it's not punishment, it's what I call recalibration. So it's the kind of year where you start, you see where you where life is asking you what happens.

When you stop forcing it. Kind of like what I mentioned with the Wheel of Fortune. It's like instead of like pushing, pushing, pushing, what if you took a step back and allowed the wheel to turn when it was ready? So this is a big growth year. It's a big growth year for you. There is your hangman. There it is. So we have personal year cards, we have personal year numbers. So there's just a lot of different ways. I'm sorry I'd keep on crossing

speaker-0 (42:15.598)
That's this is so good.

Yeah, damn.

speaker-1 (42:31.564)
the numbers, but like because there are numbers in the cards and you know, and and actually that's kind of how I got into numerology because tarot does have numbers and i it tarot has astrological associations. I feel as though everything is kind of wrapped up in this tarot deck. So there's so much information here. If you are willing to spend some time getting to know it.

speaker-0 (42:56.886)
Wow. So just to clarify, there are there's not like a personal birth card. It's a personal birth card for the year that you're in.

speaker-1 (43:06.978)
No, no, no. A birth card. Okay, this is a completely different thing. So what I just told you is a personal year card.

speaker-0 (43:15.007)
Gotcha.

speaker-1 (43:17.586)
are a whole other thing and birth cards are also connected to your birth date. It's definitely also using math. We add all the numbers of your of your birth date together. And the birth card where you can have one birth card. I have seen that in some situations. the way I work with it, there are birth card pairs.

And in one case, there are three cards within that. But the reason why there are two is because there is kind of like you know, kind of like how like when you work, like if you were to work out, like you don't just work out your bicep, you work out your tricep because there's a front of your arm and there's also a back of your arm. So I feel as though it like this birth card pair kind of gives you the upside and the downside, and it's it it's showing you

A a full comprehensive exactly. There's just all I mean, and the cards themselves had duality in it, but these cards come paired together and they have lessons and they have like the the cards are very deep and very like that's a whole other ball of wax within itself. I mean if I started this now, I think we'd be on the call for another half an hour having me explain it to you. But I'm very happy to to explain it to you at another time if you want. It's a lot.

speaker-0 (44:45.75)
Well, I also think while there's so much that you and I could uncover and do like we could do like a three part series going into all the different modalities and like open people's eyes to different ways. I also want to point people in your direction to book a session with you and like think figure this out with you personally because you know we could we could talk like you said for another like thirty minutes, forty minutes, but but there's so much specificity and and personal

my God, can I speak? Like it's it's personal. It's personal to you. So whatever your journey is, whatever that reflection that you want to do for yourself is, I do encourage you to to go find Dina's work and to get deeper. But before I let her go, I want to get messy. Yes. Mentally, emotionally, and spiritually. So mentally. You did kind of touch on this, but what is

What is actually happening when when someone pulls a card and how would you explain tarot to someone who's more of a skeptic or an overthinker or a person who just needs to make kind of logical sense of it before they can let it in?

speaker-1 (45:56.546)
Well, first of all, I'm not here to convince you of anything. I want you to know that this is a tool that's available to you. And the tarot is a to me, I as I mentioned, it's it's like a s the storybook of our life. There is every single story, every single situation that you can imagine in your life is in this deck and it gives you insights and information and it pulls up your old stories and it allows you to possibly even find new scripts.

For the old stories. And I I mean, I can't tell you how life-changing this work has been for me. It's really showed me who I am in a way that's really allowed me to accept myself and to love myself in a way that I don't know would have been possible had I not done this work.

speaker-0 (46:51.096)
Beautiful. Emotionally.

We well you actually answered this. I want you to do

So well my my question was, but I I want you to say it again. What do you see people really asking when they sit down with the cards? Like what's the question underneath the question?

speaker-1 (47:13.944)
Well the real question is, am I going to be okay?

speaker-0 (47:16.652)
Am I going to be okay? Yeah. Yeah. I love

speaker-1 (47:18.83)
Because I think that in the world right now there's just a lot of uncertainty. There's just a lot of unknowns. And people are especially looking for answers just to know that like, you know, should I be getting should I be getting, you know, another like passport and live somewhere else? You know, should I be changing jobs? Like everybody has all these things going on. But I think that ultimately they want to know, Am I going to be okay? And just the fact that they're working on this, just the fact that they are concerned enough to ask.

Yes, you will be.

speaker-0 (47:52.032)
And spiritually, what do you believe is actually happening when when we use tarot? Like is it intuition? Is it something bigger? What's going on?

speaker-1 (48:03.052)
Well, it's funny because I don't know that my experience with it is the same as everyone else's, but I I feel like when I when I pull cards, whether that be one card or six cards or however many cards I pull, I feel as though it's like I've been given a book and it's like saying, Right here, start the story here. And it's just like the story just comes out and

I I feel that it works in metaphors, it works in symbolism, it works in different ways of delivering the message. Because sometimes the universe is trying to get you a message, like quit your job, it's awful, it's not working for you anymore, or leave this relationship, this person is not your match, you know, kind of thing. And we see these signs, but sometimes we see or hear something, or just suddenly a light bulb goes off when these cards show up and

You just know what you need to do. So I feel like spiritually it's able to speak with you on another level because it's not like, you know, you're like, you know, your boss screaming in your ear or or it's just it's gentle and it's it's like an inner knowing. It's a it's a feeling you have. And and there's no denying that.

speaker-0 (49:20.374)
It's like a little nudge.

speaker-1 (49:22.894)
Just like a just like I I feel like sometimes w if I were to not trust that, I like it I I get like that little knot. I get like that little like I I I'm gonna need to go back and fix that, you know. It's like a a a spell check or something like that. I'm like, I'm gonna need to go and correct that. And but when it's it's being recognized and seen, life is easy, life is smoother. And you feel much more at peace with who you are.

speaker-0 (49:53.11)
I love that. Well, Dina, thank you so much for breaking open tarot for me to have a deeper understanding for our listeners and where can people find you? Plug all your innings.

speaker-1 (50:07.886)
Plug all my things. Well, first of all, I wrote a book and it is on Amazon. I self-published it. So you can find me on Amazon under Dina Barron. my book is called The Way Within: Igniting Your Intuition Using Sacred Tools. otherwise, you can go to my website, Dina Barron.com. I'm also on Instagram and YouTube as Dina Barron. And you can certainly you can watch my videos about all of the cards.

And if you'd be interested in working with me, there's a a section called Work With Me and you can look there and I do like one on ones, I do coaching packages and I have little classes and a whole bunch of different stuff. So and I'm always happy to hear from people. So if you just wanna, you know, just t send me a DM or reach out, I just I'm always happy to hear that people are on this journey. I'm cheering you.

speaker-0 (50:58.2)
Thank you so much. And you guys, that'll all be linked down in the show notes. And you know where to find me at underscore insideout.podcast. Make sure you share this episode with a friend. Send Dina to everyone you know. Get your birth cards done, your year card, everything. Just dive in, guys, head first. And with that, I'll see you all next week. Have a beautiful week. Bye.